Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[LL21]

Dear Lloyd congratulations whit your amps finally you have them!

The burn-inn of the K160 s will take some time in my experiences if you live them on every day minimum 5 hours they really need one full month the break inn.

High power mode is sounding better on k160 s even if you do not need this added power also when you play in moderate levels the tonality and fluidity is just better on high power than on low power!
Let me explain it this way if i where using the K160s on very high sensitivity horn loudspeakers by example where you will need only 12 pure class A watts i would use it still on High power mode....

-Did you connect your K160s to the Tripoint because it really makes the k160 a better amp if you do!
-Also the K160 is very sensible to power cords what power cords are using?

Aha!!! Thank you and great to hear from you!

- We play as much a 12 hours a day while working from home so we are up to 115 hours at the moment. When did you get a 'stable sound'...sounds like around 150 hours? Absolute Sounds said around 150 hours...maybe a bit more
- We were definitely advised by Robert himself and Absolute Sounds to use High Mode, so that is how Absolute Sounds set them up.
- We have connected all 3 Robert Koda (Preamp and both Monoblocks) to the Tripoint
- We are using Sablon Audio Prince (Bocchino IEC) which have beaten every powercord that has come in here (Transparent Opus, Crystal Absolute Dream, Gryphon VIP Reference 5, Vertere, etc)

The main thing we are still waiting on is the all-out power of the bass. The articulation is phenomenal, everything above 200hz is phenomenal...It is that critical 65hz-100hz where its articulation is fantastic...but we are waiting to see how it ultimately compares with the Mephisto whose power and grip in this range was exceptional.

- We also have it hooked up to Torus AVR16. During useage, the Torus shows a stable draw of 5.2amps out of 16amps...I think its peak wattage draw is 10x or more. I remember you said 2 x Torus AVR 16 is better. I know Absolute Sounds would agree.
- They wanted us to use the wall outlets directly, but we preferred the Mephisto through Torus (we dont play that loudly and are unlikely to be tapping out the Torus reserves)
- Absolute Sounds felt that 99.9% of the time, we would never draw more than the Torus could deliver, and if we preferred the sound then leave it
- Robert also seemed satisfied with our using the Torus

That's all for the moment...more to come. If you have any experience on bass 65hz-100hz...do let us know!

 

[Argonaut]

Aha!!! Thank you and great to hear from you!

- We play as much a 12 hours a day while working from home so we are up to 115 hours at the moment. When did you get a 'stable sound'...sounds like around 150 hours? Absolute Sounds said around 150 hours...maybe a bit more
- We were definitely advised by Robert himself and Absolute Sounds to use High Mode, so that is how Absolute Sounds set them up.

 

[Argonaut]

Very nice indeed, I don’t recall seeing Robert Koda listed within Absolute Sounds portfolio Lloyd...

 

[LL21]

Very nice indeed, I don’t recall seeing Robert Koda listed within Absolute Sounds portfolio Lloyd...

Yes, announced late last year.

ROBERT KODA & ABSOLUTE SOUNDS' TEN – AN ARTISAN COLLECTION

Mono & Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Magico - Nagra - Tidal Audio - Wilson Audio - MSB - Totaldac - Living Voice - Taiko Audio - Aries Cerat -Thrax

www.monoandstereo.com

Robert Koda Takumi K-15 EX preamp joins Absolute Sounds' lavish Ten hi-fi series

It is beautiful and available, but it doesn't come cheap

www.whathifi.com

 

[Argonaut]

With the sound off that could be a scene from Donnie Brasco

 

[rando]

Robert Koda interview above was one of only two I've found myself capable of sitting through this year. Partly for reasons alluded to above. Though I don't find American cinema contains the proper elements (framing/perspective-intelligence) for a realistic association.

@LL21 Doubt your reference is to feed them a Sheffield Kod? at slightly higher volumes than typical of your listening. On Mephisto did you establish an album or passage thus far lacking low end bowel resonating impact during break in?

 

[LL21]

Hi...actually, you'd be surprised how much deep house electronic and Hans Zimmer we listen to! Yes, if you listen to Trentmoller Chronicles, you can definitely feel certain tracks in that upper bass were not 'quite' as propulsive as the Mephisto. But there is time yet in the burn in process as I have found in other components (CJ, amps, cables) the propulsive bass tends to come last. And in fact, sometimes it disappears and comes back...and I think there was a 24 hour period when we had it...so I remain hopeful.

 

[LL21]

UPDATE: 131 HOURS

So for anyone burning in these from arrival, our experience (of one) is that 131-135 hours has been a watershed moment. The bass started to come back very rapidly from what was a fleeting glimmer of power early on in the first 5-10 hours (and then subsequently retreated which was both worrisome but also not unexpected.)

If experience is anything to go by, then the next 30-50 hours or so should start a completion of the picture to see exactly how far the amp will really go in terms of absolute extension, low noise floor, subtle detail and nuance...those quiet but extraordinary moments in music making when you discover something very soft, very subtle but very special coming out of your music for the first time.

Meanwhile, as to what was always my primary question: BASS. The last 5 hours of burn in time have demonstrated that the Robert Koda can pulverize. More importantly in the long-term is that it pulverizes with greater continuity of presentation than even the incredibly 'of a whole' Mephisto who still had the ever-so-slight difference in voice between the bass pulverizing and the filigree of the mids and upper.

Overall, most notably, what has happened is that:
- with the combination of much lower noise floor, and as Robert calls it 'dynamic simplicity', what you find is that the Robert Koda brings forth a clarity of space and TIME in a very, very, VERY organic manner.
- I have not experienced that before...mainly because relative to other amps, it is rare (actually I've not heard it before to this degree ever) that you can bring organic and super-low noise with exceptional detail retrieval.
- I think that certain kinds of feedback loops [might] just be audible in their own way...certainly proponents of no negative feedback seem to espouse so. Whatever the case may be, I feel like the organic detail that springs forth from the Robert Kodas is not because somebody dialed up the negative feedback, or turned up the sharpener...but its because he really, really, REALLY kept the purest, simplest form of design from start to finish
- ...and then combined that with the purest of form of instant super high energy source (8 amperes standing current, etc) to drive that signal into the speakers effortlessly so you also get DRIVE, SWAY/SWING...and also a stability of soundstage which I have not experienced before. It manages to keep the borders of instruments out at those outer edges firmly, where on certain crescendos or super-pianissimo moments, the image does not waver slightly even for half a note because the system cannot hold the detail, the power of the note (or the power of one note while being super-pianissimo on another instrument on the other side of the soundstage...which causes 'image shimmmer')
- and yes, pulverizing bass..

This is clearly a non-techie speaking!

And to follow up on BASS:
- pulverizing force is available if you really want it (we do)
- But the bass takes on the identical sense of organic quality, low noise, detail, skill that the uppers and mids do
- The sound is more of a whole whereby the skin of the drum is clearly CLEARLY audible even as your chest is thumping from impact.
- On the Mephisto, we got wonderful, rounded and superbly controlled chest impact...we got voice and whispers...but we did NOT hear the skin of that drum until now because it appears to have been 'pulled under' by the sheer power and force of the impact. (Again, an example of system that is taxed to both pulverize with an instrument while also being incredibly pianissimo/delicate at the same exact instant)

...more to come in the next 30-50 hours
...and perhaps a final 50 hours after that to round it up to 200 hours

Would love to hear how Amadeus finds the bass in his own system.

BTW, I have heard indirectly an owner of Mephisto Solos has recently gone to the Robert Koda K160s (before we did) and found the Robert Kodas completely superior in every way...including bass apparently. We must always consider price point not to mention personal preference...but interestingly of the 6-8 Robert Koda K160s out there...at least 3 of us owned Gryphon Mephistos before going here and coming to the same conclusion. I find that particularly telling at least in terms of the consistency of approach, 'ear' and observations.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, I'm guessing you're liking the bass, yes? The block capitals kinda give the game away Lol.

 

[LL21]

So, I'm guessing you're liking the bass, yes? The block capitals kinda give the game away Lol.

Hey Spirit. Unqualified yes. Or should I say, YES.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lloyd, I listened to the original K10 preamp 7-8 years ago, and was *amazed* by it's tube like colours and mids density, and ethereal thing with the time domain, despite being an SS component. To this day, like some other gear that fixes *that* tone (Lyra Parnassus, Marantz CD12/DA12 etc), the memory remains very strong w me.
If these SS monos play the same trick, amongst those areas you've highlighted, I can only imagine how fantastic this sound must be at yours. Put me down as extremely envious.

 

[LL21]

I definitely remember that...as well as JFrech who owned the K10 for a while. There is no question in my mind that Robert Koch has remained entirely true to his original ethos and dedicated (truly dedicated) that last 10 years since the K10 in pursuing the nth degree of that ethos. A true opus in every sense of the word having surpassed without question my experience in amplification by an extraordinary margin.

I come back to a tentative comment I made earlier with greater clarity now...I had observed that after a number of months of the D'Agostino Progression being in the system while the Mephisto was out that the Robert Koda K160 might be a greater uplift in performance over the Mephisto than the Mephisto is over the Progression.

I can now say that it is unequivocally true. The level of perfected performance that Robert has achieved here far surpasses that already magnificent Mephisto in all ways and areas...to such a definitive degree, it IS (in our experience) greater than the already significant margin by which the Mephisto had clearly surpassed the D'Agostino Progression in our system. (This was particularly evident playing the Mephisto at super low levels vs the Progression which really seemed to hit its stride at much louder volumes...an area we dont go very often if ever.)

 

[rando]

Hi...actually, you'd be surprised how much deep house electronic and Hans Zimmer we listen to! Yes, if you listen to Trentmoller Chronicles, you can definitely feel certain tracks in that upper bass were not 'quite' as propulsive as the Mephisto. But there is time yet in the burn in process as I have found in other components (CJ, amps, cables) the propulsive bass tends to come last. And in fact, sometimes it disappears and comes back...and I think there was a 24 hour period when we had it...so I remain hopeful.

Thank you for the unexpected in your reply.

BASS would appear to have reached a satisfactory level by 131 hours.

200 hours might be a new vista that keeps expanding.

 

[LL21]

Thank you for the unexpected in your reply.

BASS would appear to have reached a satisfactory level by 131 hours.

200 hours might be a new vista that keeps expanding.

Yes, it appears Robert Koch himself DOES uses Kodo drums as part of his test tracks!

 

[XV-1]

Hi...actually, you'd be surprised how much deep house electronic and Hans Zimmer we listen to! Yes, if you listen to Trentmoller Chronicles, you can definitely feel certain tracks in that upper bass were not 'quite' as propulsive as the Mephisto. But there is time yet in the burn in process as I have found in other components (CJ, amps, cables) the propulsive bass tends to come last. And in fact, sometimes it disappears and comes back...and I think there was a 24 hour period when we had it...so I remain hopeful.

Lloyd

If your system can't do Trentemoller, its not a real system. good to see the Koda's are keeping up nicely

 

[rando]

Exactly the album I was thinking of.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Lloyd

If your system can't do Trentemoller, its not a real system. good to see the Koda's are keeping up nicely

Great album.

 

[LL21]

Absolutely! I have not gone back to play Trenmoeller yet...will definitely do shortly. But all of the key test tracks so far have been great...and what has happened as the system hit 139 hours is that a LOW levels (this is a high sensitivity system, 93.5db speakers, 26db amp, but only 8db preamp)...you are starting to get the same quality as when you crank. The Mephisto was magnificent at notch 1 on the CJ GAT 2...the Robert Koda system was designed to start at 12pm noon, but that is far too loud. But now we are finding its rare qualities are now starting to appear even if we go down the volume scale towards 7:30/8 o'clock where it starts at around 7 o'clock.

...more to come...

 

[LL21]

Exactly the album I was thinking of.

One of our test albums for sure...

 

[amadeus]

UPDATE: 131 HOURS

So for anyone burning in these from arrival, our experience (of one) is that 131-135 hours has been a watershed moment. The bass started to come back very rapidly from what was a fleeting glimmer of power early on in the first 5-10 hours (and then subsequently retreated which was both worrisome but also not unexpected.)

If experience is anything to go by, then the next 30-50 hours or so should start a completion of the picture to see exactly how far the amp will really go in terms of absolute extension, low noise floor, subtle detail and nuance...those quiet but extraordinary moments in music making when you discover something very soft, very subtle but very special coming out of your music for the first time.

Meanwhile, as to what was always my primary question: BASS. The last 5 hours of burn in time have demonstrated that the Robert Koda can pulverize. More importantly in the long-term is that it pulverizes with greater continuity of presentation than even the incredibly 'of a whole' Mephisto who still had the ever-so-slight difference in voice between the bass pulverizing and the filigree of the mids and upper.

Overall, most notably, what has happened is that:
- with the combination of much lower noise floor, and as Robert calls it 'dynamic simplicity', what you find is that the Robert Koda brings forth a clarity of space and TIME in a very, very, VERY organic manner.
- I have not experienced that before...mainly because relative to other amps, it is rare (actually I've not heard it before to this degree ever) that you can bring organic and super-low noise with exceptional detail retrieval.
- I think that certain kinds of feedback loops [might] just be audible in their own way...certainly proponents of no negative feedback seem to espouse so. Whatever the case may be, I feel like the organic detail that springs forth from the Robert Kodas is not because somebody dialed up the negative feedback, or turned up the sharpener...but its because he really, really, REALLY kept the purest, simplest form of design from start to finish
- ...and then combined that with the purest of form of instant super high energy source (8 amperes standing current, etc) to drive that signal into the speakers effortlessly so you also get DRIVE, SWAY/SWING...and also a stability of soundstage which I have not experienced before. It manages to keep the borders of instruments out at those outer edges firmly, where on certain crescendos or super-pianissimo moments, the image does not waver slightly even for half a note because the system cannot hold the detail, the power of the note (or the power of one note while being super-pianissimo on another instrument on the other side of the soundstage...which causes 'image shimmmer')
- and yes, pulverizing bass..

This is clearly a non-techie speaking!

And to follow up on BASS:
- pulverizing force is available if you really want it (we do)
- But the bass takes on the identical sense of organic quality, low noise, detail, skill that the uppers and mids do
- The sound is more of a whole whereby the skin of the drum is clearly CLEARLY audible even as your chest is thumping from impact.
- On the Mephisto, we got wonderful, rounded and superbly controlled chest impact...we got voice and whispers...but we did NOT hear the skin of that drum until now because it appears to have been 'pulled under' by the sheer power and force of the impact. (Again, an example of system that is taxed to both pulverize with an instrument while also being incredibly pianissimo/delicate at the same exact instant)

...more to come in the next 30-50 hours
...and perhaps a final 50 hours after that to round it up to 200 hours

Would love to hear how Amadeus finds the bass in his own system.

BTW, I have heard indirectly an owner of Mephisto Solos has recently gone to the Robert Koda K160s (before we did) and found the Robert Kodas completely superior in every way...including bass apparently. We must always consider price point not to mention personal preference...but interestingly of the 6-8 Robert Koda K160s out there...at least 3 of us owned Gryphon Mephistos before going here and coming to the same conclusion. I find that particularly telling at least in terms of the consistency of approach, 'ear' and observations.

Great report of the burninn behavior of the K160s Lloyd

In my experience the burninn was not done in 200 hours (i know Robert thinks they will)...

I had still up to 400/500 hours ups and downs i guess you will be disappointed also sometimes in the next 150 hours and sometimes upper euphonic till its completely stable max 500 hours i guess.

I have a great natural powerful and fast Bass whit K160 s but i must admit i had this also whit the Mephisto the Bass of Mephisto is as good or almost as good as K160 there are other paramaters where the K160 is better but Bass is not the first that comes to my mind.

Anyway great to hear how happy you are enjoy and be happy