Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

Alternative "Fantasy" Amp Update:

I am buying Jadis JA100s.

Don't y'all get any wild ideas. This does not mean I'm turning into a box swapper.


This will let me experiment with the power level of 60 watts with EL34s, as KeithR has been suggesting. I am yearning to try PSET, but albeit push-pull l have never heard a Jadis amp I have not liked a lot.

For people who have experience with Jadis amps, what are the sonic pros and cons of EL34s you would recommend?

 

[Ron Resnick]

This also will give me the opportunity to experiment with making the interconnect runs from the preamp to the panel amplifiers single-ended. I want to check for any noise pick-up occasioned by the switch to RCAs. I harbor some belief in the theory that there is something about balanced connections and balanced cables that might have the effect of suppressing even order harmonics.

But I am chastened by Juergen's report that he did not like the way the VTL TL-7.5 Series III sounded using the single-ended outputs even with SET amplifiers. (This remains a big source of puzzlement to me, as I would think having to use in the circuit an unnecessary balancing transformer would have a deleterious effect on the sound of an amplifier the circuit of which is naturally single -ended.)

 

[Kcin]

Alternative "Fantasy" Amp Update:

I am buying Jadis JA100s.

Don't y'all get any wild ideas. This does not mean I'm turning into a box swapper.


This will let me experiment with the power level of 60 watts with EL34s, as KeithR has been suggesting. I am yearning to try PSET, but albeit push-pull l have never heard a Jadis amp I have not liked a lot.

For people who have experience with Jadis amps, what are the sonic pros and cons of EL34s you would recommend?

Congratulations Ron,

This will be interesting. the el34 is very polarizing as most enthusiasts and mfr's moved to the 6550 types over time for power and linearity. The power wars drive the market.

IMO its is tough to argue with what the el34 does right in the precious mid band. If you are using speakers that are bi-amped with powered sub frequencies- this may be a very rewarding path.

I had the the JA100's a long time ago and they were magnificent in my application with USA monitors.

I keep a classic example of the Marantz model 2's as one of the best examples of el34 sound I have heard- especially when switched to triode on these amps. Have fun.

 

[bonzo75]

Alternative "Fantasy" Amp Update:

I am buying Jadis JA100s.

Don't y'all get any wild ideas. This does not mean I'm turning into a box swapper.


This will let me experiment with the power level of 60 watts with EL34s, as KeithR has been suggesting. I am yearning to try PSET, but albeit push-pull l have never heard a Jadis amp I have not liked a lot.

Fair enough, wanting to try something different is not a box swapper

 

[bonzo75]

To be fair, as you previously heard your speakers only with Gryphon amps, you need to box swap for a few years to find the optimal for you. Even the readers here cannot be sure what will work. Vitus Masterpiece seems to be the one that the Mono and stereo person used. So it should be on for trial.

 

[morricab]

To be fair, as you previously heard your speakers only with Gryphon amps, you need to box swap for a few years to find the optimal for you. Even the readers here cannot be sure what will work. Vitus Masterpiece seems to be the one that the Mono and stereo person used. So it should be on for trial.

Doesn't he want to stay with tubes?

 

[bonzo75]

Doesn't he want to stay with tubes?

Well - not clear if that is the right decision or just an assumption made in his early days he is progressing on now - after all, he bought the speaker after listening to it in a complete SS system.. He checked notes with the M&S guy, who had it on SS.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Congratulations Ron,

This will be interesting. the el34 is very polarizing as most enthusiasts and mfr's moved to the 6550 types over time for power and linearity. The power wars drive the market.

IMO its is tough to argue with what the el34 does right in the precious mid band. If you are using speakers that are bi-amped with powered sub frequencies- this may be a very rewarding path.

I had the the JA100's a long time ago and they were magnificent in my application with USA monitors.

I keep a classic example of the Marantz model 2's as one of the best examples of el34 sound I have heard- especially when switched to triode on these amps. Have fun.

In pushpull class a pseudo triode mode you get 1/3 of the power a better damping factor more controll over the speaker. and the lowest distortion under 0.4 %thd at full power depending on the amplifier. I operate all el 34 amps like this.good choice

 

[morricab]

Well - not clear if that is the right decision or just an assumption made in his early days he is progressing on now - after all, he bought the speaker after listening to it in a complete SS system.. He checked notes with the M&S guy, who had it on SS.

It was his stated preference...what does "right" decision have to do with it?

 

[bonzo75]

It was his stated preference...what does "right" decision have to do with it?

That is a philosophical preference. If valves are his sonic preference after listening to both SS and valves on his speaker, it is perfectly alright. Currently, that is not the case. He bought the speaker after listening to it with SS.

The right is what is right sounding to him. He doesn't know yet.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Alternative "Fantasy" Amp Update:

I am buying Jadis JA100s.

Don't y'all get any wild ideas. This does not mean I'm turning into a box swapper.


This will let me experiment with the power level of 60 watts with EL34s, as KeithR has been suggesting. I am yearning to try PSET, but albeit push-pull l have never heard a Jadis amp I have not liked a lot.

For people who have experience with Jadis amps, what are the sonic pros and cons of EL34s you would recommend?

80 watt with el 34 100watt with kt 88
A El 34 tube plays finer, more resolution, more open sound a virtouse. A 6550/kt 88 is more of a rocker that does a jam session plays dirtier.
Both can be fun.

P.S
When want good tubes buy this. When Telefunken closed, svetlana st petersburg buys alot machine from telefunken. They made good 1:1 copies.Attention only lightgrey labeld tubes. Later black labeld not made by svetlana are sovtek tubes.

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[bonzo75]

Alternative "Fantasy" Amp Update:

I am buying Jadis JA100s.

Don't y'all get any wild ideas. This does not mean I'm turning into a box swapper.


This will let me experiment with the power level of 60 watts with EL34s, as KeithR has been suggesting. I am yearning to try PSET, but albeit push-pull l have never heard a Jadis amp I have not liked a lot.

For people who have experience with Jadis amps, what are the sonic pros and cons of EL34s you would recommend?

Mullards and Telefunken dual getters should be tried for very different sounds.

What will be your take on your direction if:

1. Jadis sounds better than VTL
2. It doesn't

or will you immediately try another amplifier after that.

 

[Ron Resnick]

To be fair, as you previously heard your speakers only with Gryphon amps, you need to box swap for a few years to find the optimal for you. Even the readers here cannot be sure what will work. Vitus Masterpiece seems to be the one that the Mono and stereo person used. So it should be on for trial.

Yes, Dato' Danon Han used Vitus Masterpiece. But the slightly slow sound of Vitus Class A on the giant Estelon speakers at AXPONA this year and on Keith's F1-12s are puzzling data points.

 

[Ron Resnick]

In pushpull class a pseudo triode mode you get 1/3 of the power a better damping factor more controll over the speaker. and the lowest distortion under 0.4 %thd at full power depending on the amplifier. I operate all el 34 amps like this.good choice

Thank you. But with the planar magnetic/ribbon driver I believe I want low damping factor as there are no woofers to control.

 

[Ron Resnick]

He bought the speaker after listening to it with SS.

Please don't deduce anything from this. At all times -- before, during and after my visit to Gryphon -- I was thinking that "as long as I like what I am hearing on solid-state I would like it on tubes even more."

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, Dato' Danon Han used Vitus Masterpiece. But the slightly slow sound of Vitus Class A on the giant Estelon speakers at AXPONA this year and on Keith's F1-12s are puzzling data points.

Keith didn’t come close to trying the masterpiece, so both of these are not valid auditions of the masterpiece nor on your speaker. It would be much easier to visit Dato if you cannot get an in-house demo of the masterpiece

 

[Ron Resnick]

80 watt with el 34 100watt with kt 88

I don't think these will prove to be the correct output levels from the JA100.

 

[bonzo75]

Please don't deduce anything from this. At all times -- before, during and after my visit to Gryphon -- I was thinking that "as long as I like what I am hearing on solid-state I would like it on tubes even more."

that’s speculation. It is possible you will like it less. After all it is a Gryphon speaker with Gryphon amps

 

[Ron Resnick]

Mullards and Telefunken dual getters should be tried for very different sounds.

I still have to put Marty's selected Telefunkens in the VTL pre-amp.

I am planning to get Mullard EL34s from Brent Jesse.

The very nice audiophile in Costa Mesa from whom I am buying the JA100s has a lot of experience with Jadis and a lot of experience with tube rolling. Unfortunately he is not into forum life.

 

[Ron Resnick]

What will be your take on your direction if:

1. Jadis sounds better than VTL
2. It doesn't

or will you immediately try another amplifier after that.

I don't want two amplifiers. I know myself, and if I have to face a decision tree every time I want to listen to music I am going to tend not to walk into the listening room.

(Quick related story: I am noticing that with the new system I am listening to music several hours per week instead of several hours every month or two with my other system in the same room. Why?

With the prior system I used to cover the Martin-Logan Prodigys and cover the amps and cover the turntable. It was kind of a hassle to prepare the system for playing.

This time, to keep dust off the components, I am doing it the other way, and I have three serious air cleaners maintaining the room like a "clean room." It is hassle free (and dust-free) and after merely flipping a few switches I can play music. It is a much better system for me if I want to actually enjoy the stereo.

So if there's too much hassle or friction for me to play the stereo history suggests I am simply not going to do it. I really like this time being able to just walk into the room and get the system going quickly.)

I am expecting at a 70% or 80% confidence level that 1/10th power of the VTLs is not going to be able to separate and untangle complex classical music or have the dynamics for rock.

I want to see on what types of music -- on what percentage of the music I listen to -- can 50 watts to 100 watts* sound better than the VTLs?

I actually think the VTLs do a fantastic job on complex classical symphony orchestra music. But that's about 10% of my music listening.

If the JA100s with EL34s (60 watts) sound significantly more emotionally engaging on girl with guitar and pop like Fleetwood Mac then I would look for Absolare SET or Mastersound PF100. But then I still would need the VTLs to play big classical for my friends. But I don't want two amplifiers. But I like hosting visiting civilians and visiting high-end audio industry people, and it really won't do to say "I cannot play complex classical music."

My "fantasy" amp project is very much in the same vein as MikeL's experimentation with the Lamm ML3s.

*I have given up on the Drina/Elysium because of the low input sensitivity, and I don't think I can get comfortable with the Magma New with "direct DC coupling."