Ron’s New System

[Johan K]

Hi / good morning Ron,

Do you have any ”first” impressions of your new Brinkmann / Phantom Elite / turntable system?

How does the new turntable sound like? Ofcourse I know it is not broken in yet, but anyway… first impressions is always a hint of what’s comming.

/ Jk

 

[Alrainbow]

Has anyone done the math on Ron’s speakers by SPL based on specs at his seat to see how many watts he needs ?
I get the set concept and in reading this thread Ron seems to like the smaller amps.
my concern is small amps may have a perceived advantage based on various tonal changes due to the limitations of the amps being able to drive his towers and control them well

 

[bonzo75]

first impressions is always a hint of what’s coming.

/ Jk

It can take two years or more to drastically change first impressions. So many owners never know what their equipment actually sounds like because they try, set it up without hearing it set up correctly elsewhere, then sell it off (Usually when they buy without listening). Underrun speakers (apogees were a prime example), overgripped speakers (Altecs a prime example), speakers oversized for their rooms, badly matched carts to arms or phonos, preamps not matching to poweramps....so many examples.

 

[Johan K]

It can take two years or more to drastically change first impressions. So many owners never know what their equipment actually sounds like because they try, set it up without hearing it set up correctly elsewhere, thens ell it off (Usually when they buy without listening). Underrun speakers (apogees were a prime example), speakers oversized for their rooms, overgripped speakers (Altecs a prime example), badly matched carts to arms or phonos, preamps not matching to poweramps....so many examples.

Ohh… But do you really think this applys to Ron? To me it seem he has full control of what he want and what he likes

 

[morricab]

Has anyone done the math on Ron’s speakers by SPL based on specs at his seat to see how many watts he needs ?
I get the set concept and in reading this thread Ron seems to like the smaller amps.
my concern is small amps may have a perceived advantage based on various tonal changes due to the limitations of the amps being able to drive his towers and control them well

Even easier would be if Ron would just measure the SPL at the speakers with pink noise and then again at the listening seat to see how many dB drop off it is. Then a more accurate assessment can be made.

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes true but a line source drops off at 1/2 that of a point source
so should be 3 db instead of 6 db
Per 3 doubling the distance starting at 1 meter or 3 feet on center
next his seat is not direct
my point is smaller amps can be better but any given situational usage greatly effects outcome
Kedar sent me videos amazing sound on tiny amps
but this is the end result
Ron is at the start of his journey and im
Just curious if measurements were done based on my asking not just room freq
sound changes before clipping occurs and imp curves effect amps clipping as well.
if me big amps that he owns would be my choice and get best then try other smaller amps of so called musical wonders
next dare I say a well made SS amp lol. not a neutral one and one with less feed back but not dry sounding
most tube lovers never consider any SS amps period it’s sad to me
I’ve been in a room owner playing there tube amp
and I asked can you try your SS amp they had it there hooked very simple swap. the room came
Alive yet the owner looked at said yea but would never give up on his tube amps lol. Ron don’t become that guy hahahaha

 

[Al M.]

next dare I say a well made SS amp lol. not a neutral one and one with less feed back but not dry sounding
most tube lovers never consider any SS amps period it’s sad to me

I am a tube amp lover but appreciate good-sounding SS amps. Including, gasp, good-sounding class D amps (yes, they do exist now, I am surprised, frankly).

I’ve been in a room owner playing there tube amp
and I asked can you try your SS amp they had it there hooked very simple swap. the room came Alive

That depends on the situation and coupled speakers. I just recently tried my little SS amp for an experiment (little, but with more wattage than my tube amp), yet the tube amp sounds more alive on my rather high-sensitivity speakers. On the other hand, in a friend's system the speakers became alive when switching from tubes to a high-powered SS amp. Again, it all depends, no blanket proclamations can be made.

It would be so easy if the rules were always simple. They aren't. Nonetheless, absolutist dogma, proclaimed by some posters, continues to have a strong presence on WBF.

 

[christoph]

Including, gasp, good-sounding class D amps (yes, they do exist now, I am surprised, frankly).

Which one would that be?

 

[Lagonda]

Yes true but a line source drops off at 1/2 that of a point source
so should be 3 db instead of 6 db
Per 3 doubling the distance starting at 1 meter or 3 feet on center
next his seat is not direct
my point is smaller amps can be better but any given situational usage greatly effects outcome
Kedar sent me videos amazing sound on tiny amps
but this is the end result
Ron is at the start of his journey and im
Just curious if measurements were done based on my asking not just room freq
sound changes before clipping occurs and imp curves effect amps clipping as well.
if me big amps that he owns would be my choice and get best then try other smaller amps of so called musical wonders
next dare I say a well made SS amp lol. not a neutral one and one with less feed back but not dry sounding
most tube lovers never consider any SS amps period it’s sad to me
I’ve been in a room owner playing there tube amp
and I asked can you try your SS amp they had it there hooked very simple swap. the room came
Alive yet the owner looked at said yea but would never give up on his tube amps lol. Ron don’t become that guy hahahaha

Ron is that guy ! he is a tube guy from a philosophical point of view, he will try all tube amps in the world before he would lower himself to connecting SS. His goal is to become a SET guy like Brad. But he has the wrong speakers for such Puritanism !

 

[bonzo75]

Ron is that guy ! he is a tube guy from a philosophical point of view, he will try all tube amps in the world before he would lower himself to connecting SS. His goal is to become a SET guy like Brad. But he has the wrong speakers for such Puritanism !

He is like a vegan who dreams of wagyu

 

[Lagonda]

He is like a vegan who dreams of wagyu

He needs the special order MBL 90210 hybrid amplifier !

 

[Ron Resnick]

Even easier would be if Ron would just measure the SPL at the speakers with pink noise and then again at the listening seat to see how many dB drop off it is. Then a more accurate assessment can be made.

This is easy, sure. I have the wonderful Reed SPL meter.

But I am not going to abdicate to an arbitrary equation my subjective preference for what I consider to be satisfying SPL (which, at 85dB to 92dB with 95dB peaks is higher than most audiophiles, but a bit lower than Don likes) and satisfying dynamics, plus a philosophical overlay about headroom. So the answer to your question doesn't have any practical or actionable significance to me.

 

[bonzo75]

Loudness and drive are different things, and this assumes the ribbon is easier to drive as a driver

 

[microstrip]

Even easier would be if Ron would just measure the SPL at the speakers with pink noise and then again at the listening seat to see how many dB drop off it is. Then a more accurate assessment can be made.

What is the purpose of such data if he can't measure electrical power? We know since long that manufacturer measurements can't be trusted.

We can do such calibration using the adequate digital tracks and a RMS voltmeter, but it needs some expertise.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Which one would that be?

GaN fet amps(gallium nitride) with a good output filter sounds pretty good.
far higher PWM frequency (800 kHz)

 

[Johan K]

He needs the special order MBL 90210 hybrid amplifier !View attachment 117324View attachment 117325

Top Fuel Dragsters? !!!

 

[morricab]

Ron is that guy ! he is a tube guy from a philosophical point of view, he will try all tube amps in the world before he would lower himself to connecting SS. His goal is to become a SET guy like Brad. But he has the wrong speakers for such Puritanism !

I don’t agree they are the wrong speakers, especially because bass is active. The ribbon has an easy impedance with virtually no variability with frequency. Being a line source it has a long throw so that SPL is not dropping off as fast or is as room dependent. So, all that adds up to moderate demand on the amp…go for quality not quantity.

 

[morricab]

This is easy, sure. I have the wonderful Reed SPL meter.

But I am not going to abdicate to an arbitrary equation my subjective preference for what I consider to be satisfying SPL (which, at 85dB to 92dB with 95dB peaks is higher than most audiophiles, but a bit lower than Don likes) and satisfying dynamics, plus a philosophical overlay about headroom. So the answer to your question doesn't have any practical or actionable significance to me.

Well, Ron I guess you don’t get your science badge! Philosophical overlay…

 

[morricab]

What is the purpose of such data if he can't measure electrical power? We know since long that manufacturer measurements can't be trusted.

We can do such calibration using the adequate digital tracks and a RMS voltmeter, but it needs some expertise.

Bass is active, so we are basically talking about a large BG planar magnetic driver. The specs on that driver are pretty accurate as is the impedance (about 6 ohms.). There are some Mundorf AMTs for uppermost frequency assist (not really needed IME with these drivers…but whatever). As it is basically a resistor, it is probably more accurate than most to make a calculation that then gives a reasonable estimate of power demand…don’t need to be 6 decimal places accurate for this.

 

[KeithR]

Loudness and drive are different things, and this assumes the ribbon is easier to drive as a driver

The easy solution is for @213Cobra stop by and listen. He will know in 10 mins. I believe Ron is arranging that visit.

One thing missing in all of this is the panels aren’t optimized in the room from a position perspective.