Ron’s New System

[DasguteOhr]

putting the woofer towers inside cancels wave bumps bi putting closer to the outside of the wave.
I’ll say this and it’s not a joke
Place one tower in the middle and other tower on one side
This puts you completely outside of waves looks dumb but gives you how it should sound
I know lol but it has merit on paper.
another way is moved them all more into the room this gives the low freq a place to go in standing waves
It’s why my room is 55 feet and speakers mid way
Seat 8 or 9 feet and the rest behind me

Phantastic tipp works almost every time you get a bass that plays deeper and cleaner and peaks and valleys between 30hz-100hz are almost gone.exsample pic

I would try placing the bass tower in the middle. It's strange to look at at first, but the measurement will blow you away, as will the sound.
to bring the other two speakers exactly into position.
You need a parcel cord and a second person. You sit in a listening position and hold the string to the tip of your nose. The second person pulls the cord tight and holds it against the outer edge of the speaker. Move the speakers until the length of the string on the left and right is equal (mark it on the string with a pen). To get the same angle of the speakers to your ears, take the same measurement with the string on the inside edge of the speakers. I am aware that this is not easy with large, heavy speakers. But the effort is definitely worth it.
Important do not move your head during the measurement. You can use a marked point on the listening chair too.

 

[Johan K]

I am hearing an increase in transparency and in-the-room "presence" on vocals. Vocals and instruments have a greater delicacy.

Don came over briefly today and commented that he thinks the turntable sounds "quiet."

That’s wonderful Ron! Just think of what a great sound you will have then in three four month from now, when everything is falling into place and things is starting to get broken in. I think your in for a huge experience .

/ Jk

 

[2fastdriving]

JR is great. He's coming to visit me soon, and I am very much looking forward to that! Good luck with the new gear and setup Ron!

 

[morricab]

And I was commenting that without real complete data (electrical and acoustical) all this talk is very misleading. Also since Ron is not going to measure it your estimations are just speculation.

You seem to forget that I own a shorter pair of these exact BG planars…I know how they work and worked extensively with them…not mere speculation. You don’t need complete data to make educated guesses…this is a false assertion by those who don’t really understand what is going on and what scientific method is really about.

 

[Alrainbow]

Two people gave me the wisdom of helping and understanding the phase issues of the line source woofer towers
Gary koh first and one of his Facebook friends
I made under his advice an adjustable phase
Device for the woofer towers
This allowed me to dial in a phase for each tower separately to have each cancel the other
This results in an extremely detailed bass and no boom.
it worked and not dsp per say simple electronics used
shown in the pic is before room was finished
Woofer tower in middle and to one side
ill bet if Ron were to sit to one side all the way his bass would completely linear
And if he would standup up and walk left to right he would hear the changes i speak of
My room is 9 feet high 20 feet wide and 55 deep
end game and as 20 feet from front wall to back of towers
my seat 8 to 10 feet
With the Balance of the room behind me.
this solves the bass bump
moving the seat closer or further effects the bass wave. not a phase wave but acoustic waves
Up and down at distance from towers
In a world of industry experts Gary of GENISIS tech speakers is a real expert

 

[Alrainbow]

PS Paul of PS audio did not help as he too had issues but only lessoned by seat position
yes he was loud in trying to help me
Arnie rest his soul said keep moving them lol again kind to try to help.
what I don’t understand is how no other person ever had real advice and man I posted every where.
anyway enjoy Ron I wish I had anyone kind enough to help me set things up your blessed and deserve the help. You’re a good guy in my world.
1500 pound towers is no fun alone to move hahaha

 

[Alrainbow]

View attachment 117348

Did I misunderstand your comment the woofer towers are on the outside ? Here

 

[pjwd]

We ended up with the woofer towers inside of the panels!

What a surprise

Phil

 

[KeithR]

J.R. Boisclair, of WAM Engineering, has been staying with me since Tuesday night. He works 12 hour days.

He is very meticulous and patient, and measurement oriented, but guided ultimately by how it sounds in the room to himself and to his client.

I agreed that pretty much everything is fair game, and, since yesterday after lunch, J.R. has been working on speaker tower positioning. The woofer towers have been moved several times, and the panels have been moved many times. Lots of experimentation has taken place.

We ended up with the woofer towers inside of the panels! We ended up with the AVAAs flanking the listening chair like bodyguards.

The 45Hz and 65Hz room modes have been partially mitigated. A peak in the 4kHz to 5kHz range has been largely remedied.

J.R. wants me to put four foot square absorption panels on the front sidewalls by the ceiling. I will do this.

J.R. is best known for turntable set-up and cartridge alignment, but he is equally expert at room acoustics and loudspeaker positioning. I am extremely happy with his services! Plus, he's a very nice, fun, smart, normal guy.

If you have any questions about J.R.'s services or his process, please do not hesitate to ask me.

well well well this is really exciting stuff to hear! i'm assuming the bass integration is also much better. where did the panels end up from the front wall?

 

[Folsom]

You seem to forget that I own a shorter pair of these exact BG planars…I know how they work and worked extensively with them…not mere speculation. You don’t need complete data to make educated guesses…this is a false assertion by those who don’t really understand what is going on and what scientific method is really about.

Plus Gryphon isn't claiming some high sensitivity number that is out of spec for the spec sheet of the driver. He's just patently wrong on this particular point.

 

[Alrainbow]

I do have a question I get why some tow maybe needed I’m guessing due to twitters not being a line source so tow may fix
But why tow woofers I’ve never seen anyone tow subs or line source sub/woofers
im here to learn so no need to feel my question is to insult
im just curios and your speakers while a line source
Have minimal side wings to delay the sound like Genisis or my irs v do so tow makes sense to try.
lastly of the many tries to fix my bass boom I did try tow a waist lol. I can tow the mid/tweet towers just a tiny tiny bit on one side. This fixed some reflection issues I could not figure out.

 

[Kingrex]

JR likes swarm. Has he suggeated adding a couple bass cabinet

 

[Alrainbow]

Phantastic tipp works almost every time you get a bass that plays deeper and cleaner and peaks and valleys between 30hz-100hz are almost gone.exsample picView attachment 117349

I would try placing the bass tower in the middle. It's strange to look at at first, but the measurement will blow you away, as will the sound.
to bring the other two speakers exactly into position.
You need a parcel cord and a second person. You sit in a listening position and hold the string to the tip of your nose. The second person pulls the cord tight and holds it against the outer edge of the speaker. Move the speakers until the length of the string on the left and right is equal (mark it on the string with a pen). To get the same angle of the speakers to your ears, take the same measurement with the string on the inside edge of the speakers. I am aware that this is not easy with large, heavy speakers. But the effort is definitely worth it.
Important do not move your head during the measurement. You can use a marked point on the listening chair too.

To be fair it looks great to me and having great sound beats looks every time. Ron seems to like the looks and symmetry as well lol.

 

[Alrainbow]

JR likes swarm. Has he suggeated adding a couple bass cabinet

Using subs might help Midbass coupling letting the present line source subs get more active in Mids
Subs are a great thing and needed many times issue is getting them right a long process
Marty is a perfect example of done right
Steve also

 

[Kingrex]

Whats interesting about Marty is his subs really seem to do nothing. Same with my friend Bob. They are crossed low and appear to emit 0 sound. Yet the bass in both rooms has 0 boom or unnatural hang.

 

[Alrainbow]

lol they work, but correctly Marty is an ocd man with the time , ability and understanding to make it correct. The audio elephant is the perception of correct to really correct. now I like more highs more ambience but this is not correct
I’m old and maybe going deaf hahaha Marty’s is just perfect
PS did he tell you just how many ways he tried his subs
I have to admit I would never put this time into that. But there is a cause and effect
Cause im not putting the time
Effect never getting close to a Marty balance system
the best part is he is not an industry expert either
Hahahaha

 

[cjfrbw]

With crossover point of 250 or so, the bass towers do contain audible, localizable information. They have to maintain that image coherency in relation to the ribbons when positioned. They can't be placed more or less arbitrarily like subwoofers with crossovers below 100 Hz. Putting one of them in the middle might help low bass, but would screw up imaging coherence.

It does seem possible to experiment with the bass towers on the inside rather than the outside, however. That's the way I have my panels positioned with the big ribbons on the outside. That would be subject to taste and listening.

 

[Johan K]

Whats interesting about Marty is his subs really seem to do nothing. Same with my friend Bob. They are crossed low and appear to emit 0 sound. Yet the bass in both rooms has 0 boom or unnatural hang.

Love to hear I’m not alone being nerdy, hahaha !

 

[Johan K]

lol they work, but correctly Marty is an ocd man with the time , ability and understanding to make it correct. The audio elephant is the perception of correct to really correct. now I like more highs more ambience but this is not correct
I’m old and maybe going deaf hahaha Marty’s is just perfect
PS did he tell you just how many ways he tried his subs
I have to admit I would never put this time into that. But there is a cause and effect
Cause im not putting the time
Effect never getting close to a Marty balance system
the best part is he is not an industry expert either
Hahahaha

As I said: Love to hear I’m not alone being nerdy, hahaha!!!

 

[thomask]

Even though the Pendragons were very expensive, and I fully expect and respect that this comment will be subjected to ridicule, I am happy with my sound quality per dollar investment.

Think of it this way: the MSRP of every single thing in my system, excluding records and tapes, totals about the same amount as the MSRP of the Wilson Audio XVX loudspeakers alone.

Even though your Pendragons is supposed to go deep, you may want to try pair of either Rel 31 or 32 with your system.

They have generous policy of 60 days return.

My guess is that it will give your system more lifelike dynamics and improve soundstage further.