Sorry, i have only cv2492/e88cc gold pin in the moment here,they have thicker pins.
I can't say with certainty whether this is also the case with ecc83
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I can't say with certainty whether this is also the case with ecc83
Yup agree Stephan … We are tho looking at finding the best recipe of valves to suit Ron’s predilections in particularly for vocal …. The Mil Spec Mullards might just bring the right balance for him as they are a little more neutral than standard Mullards but not as clean and incisive as the Telefunkens … Only one way to find out
You can remove the TFK ribbed plate ecc83 and ecc803s from the list. They play perfectly clean with less tonal color in the midrange. less emotional. Maybe a Phillips SQ e83cc should be on the shortlist.Yup agree Stephan … We are tho looking at finding the best recipe of valves to suit Ron’s predilections in particularly for vocal …. The Mil Spec Mullards might just bring the right balance for him as they are a little more neutral than standard Mullards but not as clean and incisive as the Telefunkens … Only one way to find out
New tubes means you should try adjusting the bias. I would guess a few notches lower in bias should improve the soundBut compared to the incumbents which were fully burned in, the new ones sound bright.
Ron, once you get this worked out - and your tube problem resolved! - have you thought of running an REW sweep to see how everything looks?
Hi Joshua!
Thank you, but Jadis is fixed bias. And I replaced an input tube, not an output tube.
That would be rational, but no I have not thought of that.
I have a great flat frequency response microphone, but it is not calibrated, and I do not have REW software.
I would be curious to see an REW frequency response, but as long as I like how it sounds, I really don't care how it looks.
and of course the Tungsram nickel plate, superb transparency with extended highs and tight bass.
Thank you for the suggestion! But I interpret "superb transparency with extended highs and tight bass" as neutral and clinical sounding?
Neutral but not clinical sounding. Very musical, no added warmth but lots of presence. One of those valves that make music sound alive.
Yup I concur, a fabulous valve … however If I am reading Rons signals correctly , I would still tend toward a valve with a little more emphasis in the mid/upper mid range weight and liquidity than a more neutral valve, altho in a phono stage I would tend toward such neutrality myself , as recommended by yourself , Stephan and with the mill spec Mullards .
Ron , perhaps check if this guy is still selling these :
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...-gold-pin-several-available-for-matched-sets/
Bugle boys love them
On the question about diffusion versus absorption versus nothing on the front wall I realize I could also just try a TubeTrap up against the front wall behind each panel, diffusion side facing out.
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Very good - Now you’re talking!!
The thing is you can turn the tubes diffusing part to your flavour… it does not need to be exactly facing front.. you can turn them in that way you feel does the most effect.
/ Jk
There is a pair of NAT Transmitter mono blocks on CAM, fellow asking $11K Canadian (about $8k U.S. dollars). 120 watts per channel. A relatively cheap way to see if high power SET is the direction you wanted to go.
As for warm, communicative 12ax7 for your Jadis, I recommend the Amperex long plate ECC83 mentioned above, or the very early (pre 1951) RCA black plate, or the Raytheon 12AX7 black plate. If you can use 5751 (and most amps using 12ax7 can), the Sylvania 5751 triple mica grey plate, gold pins would also fit the bill.
As for warm, communicative 12ax7 for your Jadis, I recommend the Amperex long plate ECC83 mentioned above, or the very early (pre 1951) RCA black plate, or the Raytheon 12AX7 black plate. If you can use 5751 (and most amps using 12ax7 can), the Sylvania 5751 triple mica grey plate, gold pins would also fit the bill.
My new Io Eclipse is shockingly quiet. Jim White did a great job selecting low noise tubes!
I am very happy with the sound of everything at the moment. When I was chasing down a tube noise problem in one of the amplifiers earlier in the week swapped out the NOS Mullards I had in the Jadis for different NOS Mullards to return the former matched pair to the matched quad set of which they were previously affiliated.
Well, that was a big mistake! The replacement NOS Mullards, not being burned in, sounded bright and cheap! I really didn't want to go through 20 hours of edginess on Eva Cassidy, so I put the original NOS Mullards back in place, and now everything is sounding correct again!
Conclusions:
1) NOS tube burn-in is a real thing
2) NOS tube burn-in makes a material difference to sound
After much handwringing about whether to keep the first, critical for noise, gain stage in the Io filled with the stock Sovteks, and put NOS Mullards in the second or third gain stage, or to replace the stock Sovteks with the Mullards in the first gain stage, I have decided to try the Mullards in the first gain stage. I'm just curious to see how they change the sound, and how they change the noise level.
I just have to know how NOS Mullards sound in the first Io gain stage. I have all of these NOS quad sets, so it makes sense to play around.
I also have NOS Telefunken 6922s (V7) and NOS RCAs for the 6SN7s (V8). In 2016 and 2017 I bought an inventory to be able to fully swap out with NOS all Io control unit tubes.
I am very happy with the sound of everything at the moment. When I was chasing down a tube noise problem in one of the amplifiers earlier in the week swapped out the NOS Mullards I had in the Jadis for different NOS Mullards to return the former matched pair to the matched quad set of which they were previously affiliated.
Well, that was a big mistake! The replacement NOS Mullards, not being burned in, sounded bright and cheap! I really didn't want to go through 20 hours of edginess on Eva Cassidy, so I put the original NOS Mullards back in place, and now everything is sounding correct again!
Conclusions:
1) NOS tube burn-in is a real thing
2) NOS tube burn-in makes a material difference to sound
After much handwringing about whether to keep the first, critical for noise, gain stage in the Io filled with the stock Sovteks, and put NOS Mullards in the second or third gain stage, or to replace the stock Sovteks with the Mullards in the first gain stage, I have decided to try the Mullards in the first gain stage. I'm just curious to see how they change the sound, and how they change the noise level.
I just have to know how NOS Mullards sound in the first Io gain stage. I have all of these NOS quad sets, so it makes sense to play around.
I also have NOS Telefunken 6922s (V7) and NOS RCAs for the 6SN7s (V8). In 2016 and 2017 I bought an inventory to be able to fully swap out with NOS all Io control unit tubes.
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Hi Ron.
If the first gain stage in the Io is a 12ax7 you can (even must) do better than the Sovtec LPS even if it is the stock tube. Yes they are quiet, but so dry and sterile (of course in my opinion and in my system where I have tried them in both my amp and my Coincident Phono preamp). The first gain stage of the phono preamp are the most important tubes in the entire system (phono based ) with the greatest amplification factor. This is not the spot for introducing warmth or any other colourations. This is the spot for an extremely linear tube. Like Telefunken ( 803s if you can find them, otherwise smooth and then ribbed in that order of preference), or a Siemens long plate or Siemens triple mica. Low noise samples are still common. My Teles and Siemens are just as quiet as the Sovtec LPS or new “Mullard” reissue (that Isreal supplies with the unit) in the first stage in my phono Preamp. Not the spot for a Mullard (except for maybe an early long plate, dont have a good pair to try). Again in my opinion based on my experience having collected 12ax7s (and 5751) over the past 30 years and using them in my gear.
Another (cheap) option to try is the JJ E83CC frame grid tube. Don’t laugh, this tube is competitive with most NOS ( make sure you get that exact tube, JJ makes at least 10 different 12ax7s and the others are not nearly as good).
Don‘t know what the 6SN7s do in the IO, but there are certainly more linear tubes than the RCA (although they are warm and beautiful in the midrange) like Sylvania 6SN7W or brown base 6SN7WGT.
Enjoy the roll!
If the first gain stage in the Io is a 12ax7 you can (even must) do better than the Sovtec LPS even if it is the stock tube. Yes they are quiet, but so dry and sterile (of course in my opinion and in my system where I have tried them in both my amp and my Coincident Phono preamp). The first gain stage of the phono preamp are the most important tubes in the entire system (phono based ) with the greatest amplification factor. This is not the spot for introducing warmth or any other colourations. This is the spot for an extremely linear tube. Like Telefunken ( 803s if you can find them, otherwise smooth and then ribbed in that order of preference), or a Siemens long plate or Siemens triple mica. Low noise samples are still common. My Teles and Siemens are just as quiet as the Sovtec LPS or new “Mullard” reissue (that Isreal supplies with the unit) in the first stage in my phono Preamp. Not the spot for a Mullard (except for maybe an early long plate, dont have a good pair to try). Again in my opinion based on my experience having collected 12ax7s (and 5751) over the past 30 years and using them in my gear.
Another (cheap) option to try is the JJ E83CC frame grid tube. Don’t laugh, this tube is competitive with most NOS ( make sure you get that exact tube, JJ makes at least 10 different 12ax7s and the others are not nearly as good).
Don‘t know what the 6SN7s do in the IO, but there are certainly more linear tubes than the RCA (although they are warm and beautiful in the midrange) like Sylvania 6SN7W or brown base 6SN7WGT.
Enjoy the roll!
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Thank you for your thoughts, Mendel!
Sonically, after only a brief listen, I have no complaints with these NOS Mullards in V1 and V2.
Sonically, after only a brief listen, I have no complaints with these NOS Mullards in V1 and V2.
NOS long plate, halo getter Mullards are now in V1 and V2.
The left channel is as quiet as the Sovtek 12AX7LPs. However, the right channel is about 30% noisier.
So I have to swap one tube at a time from the left channel to the right channel to see which right channel Mullard is the culprit.
The left channel is as quiet as the Sovtek 12AX7LPs. However, the right channel is about 30% noisier.
So I have to swap one tube at a time from the left channel to the right channel to see which right channel Mullard is the culprit.