Understood, but the overall sound, to me, sounds much better than before I think, so BIG improvement - at least to me
, but YMMV./ Jk
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
, but YMMV./ Jk
Ron, Thank you for making the effort to record and post this latest video. I listened to it and then tried to figure out how to find your older ones and then remembered that I could simply go on vimeo and scroll through all of your Fields of Gold videos, and others that you have made.
Your videos do sound considerably different over time. The treatments and other system changes do seem to make quite an audible difference to the presentation, and they are clearly audible over the videos. You change arms and cartridges as well as the treatments.
It is hard for me to say which sounds most realistic or believable. For instance, the video from three months ago is more immediate, more alive, and seems to have more energy than does this most recent one. It draws me in more. This latest one is more damped and subdued sounding to me. I will say this latest one is very quiet and smooth sounding. Your LP is in nice condition.
I am curious to know what @Carlos269 thinks of this latest one and I will try to locate his version for compare/contrast.
And different cartridge, different arm. I guess we must not compare one change between video versions but take each on its own, in its entirety. Too hard to tell what is causing what.
Oh, yes, if three months ago was before I had the new LP playback set-up! (At least a couple of experienced people suggested that a bit of brightness might be coming from the Denon turntable.)
The notes on the video say Brinkman balance turntable Graham arm and ZYX universe cartridge. The new video says Reed tonearm and ZYX. There are some notes on your videos but it’s hard to tell what else is different.
Ohhh. Okay.
I wonder how much failure to level match playback SPL misleads us into thinking tracks sounds different?
I wonder how much failure to level match playback SPL misleads us into thinking tracks sounds different?
yeah, I don’t really know about volume or system configuration between the videos. I’m only going by each video in isolation. I am most engaged by the one from three months ago. It’s interesting because others seem to like your most recent video best.
It definitely is interesting which version people prefer.
I don't know which digital video version I prefer.
I know that I am happiest now with the sound in the room. Although I reserve the right to change my mind and decide in the future that I am happier with the sound in the room without the TubeTraps on the front wall.
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Peter, I listened to latest Fields of Gold video that was posted by Ron and I concur with much of your assessment. My impressions are that the sound on this video is very smooth and pleasant sounding, but devoid of “air”, spaciousness and energy in the high frequencies.
I do find the sound on this latest video to be enjoyable in a laid-back and smooth kind of a way, but it lacks the high-frequencies sizzle, bass resolution & articulation, energy, “air” & sense of space, and liveliness of the kind of playback that I enjoy and get from my systems.
I have not done the analysis of Ron’s various, or even recent, Field of Gold videos as you have done; so I have not followed the revisions and trajectory as closely as you have. While I can’t attribute any one particular change as responsible for any aspect of the sound, I can speculate on a few things: The sound on this latest video is classic old school tube amp Jadis, Conrad-Johnson, Audio Research sound, very smooth, warm and round sounding but also lacking resolution, low-level and inner detail. The energy in the high frequencies is also lacking, as if they have been absorbed by the various room acoustics treatment panels that have increasingly been lined and positioned around the room.
I don’t want to cast a negative impression of the sound on the video, because it does not sound bad, quite the contrary, it is quite smooth, laid-back and enjoyable. But if your audiophile goal is for your system to sound “live” then I have to say that the sound on the video missed that mark.
One last observation, on the video there is a strong reverberant sound, which is difficult to distinguish if it is a contribution from Ron’s listening room or from his system’s reproduction of this recording. The reverberant sound is accentuated by the lack of high frequency energy on the sound on the video.
If you enjoy classic vintage tube amp sound that is warm, smooth and rounded then this video checks those boxes.
It would be interesting for Ron to record “Saturday Night’s Alright”, one of Ron’s other favorite tracks, to hear how much sizzle the guitar on that track has with his current setup.
Again, not a bad sounding video but too “choked up” for the “suspension of disbelief” that you are listening to a “live” performance.
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I concur Carlos. When I was doing my various experiments with my old system I changed my view of energy in the room. I have a guitar upstairs that I do not know how to play. My kids took lessons when they were young. I have a piano in my listening room. I am always struck by the amount of energy that comes out of those two instruments when simply strumming the strings or depressing some of the keys. That energy is what distinguishes live music.
That energy contains the information on the recording. Once it is removed from the room, it cannot be recovered.
I had a wonderful afternoon and evening hosting Michael Hobson, a titan in the industry, and a living legend for his work in records, re-issues and keeping vinyl alive. Michael is soooo nice –– just totally delightful! His deep experience in this field goes back 39 years!
Mike is a total perfectionist. (Which we knew from his Classic Records work!)
I loved hearing about his many visits to Harry Pearson in Sea Cliff.
I intended Mike just to have a relaxing listening session, but he went to work on the system.
Michael's thoughts:
1) ribbon panels, woofer towers and cables still need to break in
2) after only a short time Michael positioned a folding chair about 2 1/2 feet in front of the main listening chair. He found this closer position significantly more involving.
3) raised the woofer level 2db higher (a level which is 3dB higher than the Grover Neville setting)
4) prefers the middle Q setting (2), as he feels this allows for better integration between the towers
5) overall very quiet for a complicated, all-tube system
6) room is slightly over-damped overall
7) is skeptical that ribbon panels outside of the woofer towers ultimately are the correct positioning
8) he turned the front wall TubeTraps and the centered TubeTraps from diffusion side out to absorption side out. He feels this achieves better focus.
9) Overall Michael feels there's more performance to be realized out of the system from further optimization.
10) He thought that Wavac 833s are an interesting idea.
Mike is a total perfectionist. (Which we knew from his Classic Records work!)
I loved hearing about his many visits to Harry Pearson in Sea Cliff.
I intended Mike just to have a relaxing listening session, but he went to work on the system.
Michael's thoughts:
1) ribbon panels, woofer towers and cables still need to break in
2) after only a short time Michael positioned a folding chair about 2 1/2 feet in front of the main listening chair. He found this closer position significantly more involving.
3) raised the woofer level 2db higher (a level which is 3dB higher than the Grover Neville setting)
4) prefers the middle Q setting (2), as he feels this allows for better integration between the towers
5) overall very quiet for a complicated, all-tube system
6) room is slightly over-damped overall
7) is skeptical that ribbon panels outside of the woofer towers ultimately are the correct positioning
8) he turned the front wall TubeTraps and the centered TubeTraps from diffusion side out to absorption side out. He feels this achieves better focus.
9) Overall Michael feels there's more performance to be realized out of the system from further optimization.
10) He thought that Wavac 833s are an interesting idea.
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Like I said before, it would make sense if you replied to your previous video post, giving people a chain link.
It would be cool if Ron made a video right after each of the many visitors did their set up work.
Ron, are you still planning to engage Jim Smith or Sterling Trail (sp)?
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I concur based on the videos. Amazing how it ties up to his in-room impressions.
I’m unsure how someone can gauge this in an unfamiliar system. He must posses powers well beyond those of normal humans. Or he is just simply speculating.
Near-field listening is key to obviating many room acoustics related issues.
Perhaps Michael is a basshead. Based on the videos, the system’s deficiencies lie at the other end of the frequency spectrum, from your normal listening position. He must have adjusted the bass settings for the folding chair listening position, because near-field listening would have changed the sound’s tonal balance.
More information is required to have an opinion. Was the previous Q setting the higher one or the lower one prior to his preference for the middle setting?
Your system is not complicated or complex at all. You have a pretty straight forward arrangement for a system with this configuration. It is the lack of complexity that actually limits you in what you can achieve in terms of control. The more parametric adjustments, the higher the level of control one has over the resultant sound.
This is pretty obvious, specially from the latest Fields of Gold video. This is also obvious visually. I personally would get rid of every single room treatment and bass traps, both passive and active, in that room and would tune your system without any of that nonsense. Perhaps in the end there might be a need for a one or two placed strategically but certainly not the overdone “attempt at a solution” patchwork that you have currently implemented.
I’m also skeptical of this arrangement and always prefer the bass cabinets on the outside.
This is interesting, I think that this is from his record producing background as you want the direct sound only and to snuff or suppress all other sound. In the recording studio that is the goal but as I have mentioned previously, in the home environment temporal contiguous reflections will add to the sound’s sense of intimacy and ambiance.
Owning a similar system, although mine is much more complex and grand, I have to agree.
I’m not sure why it is taking you so long and why the process has become so drawn out and tedious to dial in this simple system. I say that and then again, it has taken Todd (SBNX), with his meticulous set up techniques, 9 months to tune just his left speaker and perhaps this year he will get to the right one.
System tuning is an ongoing, evergreen, process but 95% completion should be achieved within the first week in my personal experience, the rest is just fine-tuning. If I may be honest, there doesn’t appear to me that you have a clear path forward.
You should be just enjoying this system by now and not worrying about basics by this time. Just my thoughts.
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I spent the afternoon listening to my usual favorite songs in the folding chair mic positioned about 2 1/2 feet in front of my regular main listening chair.
I don't care for the perspective.
Interestingly at Jeff Tyo's several years ago I tended to prefer to sit one row back (at his desk) from Jeff's main listening couch. Similarly at Mike Lavigne's I tended to prefer listening one row back behind Mike's main listening chair.
I don't care for the perspective.
Interestingly at Jeff Tyo's several years ago I tended to prefer to sit one row back (at his desk) from Jeff's main listening couch. Similarly at Mike Lavigne's I tended to prefer listening one row back behind Mike's main listening chair.
Here you are assuming or misunderstanding. I am loving the sound of the system right now.
But that's completely separate from the fact that I have infinite interest in and infinite patience for hearing other peoples' opinions and suggestions. If somebody suggests something, and I experiment with it, and it effects a Pareto Optimal improvement, then I'm all for it.