There’s just no way to get a point source speaker to scale up and down like a line-source panel speaker , you give up some percussive energy ( weight) on instruments vs dynamic point source but win everywhere else ..
Regards
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
There’s just no way to get a point source speaker to scale up and down like a line-source panel speaker , you give up some percussive energy ( weight) on instruments vs dynamic point source but win everywhere else ..
Regards
You are welcome, Ron. Your system is special, and left a lasting impression which I wanted to document to some degree.
Yes, we had a fun time! It was very nice to meet Tinka and also to practice some Dutch, which I had not spoken in years, but always enjoy to when opportunity arises.
It was indeed nice to relive music history in Laurel Canyon, and the food in your chosen restaurants was just great!
Thank you Ian, even Al has admitted Ron's system is much better than his own set up, no small feat, it must truly be excellent !
To admit that another system in a much better room is better than mine is easy, especially when it is as good as Ron's.
As I said elsewhere, I think I have relatively close to maxxed out -- to my very personal taste, that is -- what is possible in my room of modest dimensions (see my signature), and I am extremely happy with the result. I really do like the tonal balance and tonal density that it represents, as far as that is possible in my room without reducing other qualities.
Yet I also said that for the best sound you need a much larger room like Ron has (and I think there the high ceiling plays a large part). This of course further complicates gear choice to get the best out such a room, but evidently Ron has chosen well.
Sorry to jump in Ron. I wanted to make a couple power comments.
It is possible to fight a utiltiy and try for a dedicated padmount that is copper with copper feeds from it to the house. It may also be an insurmountable hill. Many times they brush you off. They have a standard and that stone will not budge. Other times they say sure, your paying.
Once in the house, you very well can set a meter with 2 main breakers and isolate clean from dirty power. You can also filter the dirty side instead of clean side to reduce back polution. But, low level harmonics 1,3,5,7,9,11. Those all seem to walk right through any filter I have measured. Filters are much more effective at filtering high frequency noise.
Copper. I love copper. If you have a remodel going on and have the opportunity to throw out your contractor grade loadcenter and replace it with a all copper industrial panel, do it. That loadcenter is about $300. A industrial panel is $2500. The breakers are the same breaker so same price. I have sat and directly compared them. At least the ones I build out, have a very notable quiet and clean as compared to a loadcenter. There is a simbilance that comes with a loadcenter. My friend and I doing the compare said just changing the panel was on a level of adding a Torus. But different. Copper is not a filter. Its on the most basic level removing the galvanic reaction between dissimilar noblility of metals.
Branch wires. Just use 10 awg NM-B. Solid is way better than stranded. Stranded 10 is fat and tubby. Stranded #8 is too hard and edgy. #10 solid has good balance and is clean.
Grounding. The rod in your yard does nothing for sound. Disconnect it and see for yourself. Listen to your stereo and have a friend pull it. You won't hear a thing.
BUT grounding as pertains to how a panel is made up can be very audible. Just reworking a panel can create a very audible effect of calm and quiet. Other times not so much. It depends on the brand panel and how far off the original wiring was.
This is a hard subject to approach without ruffling feathers.
I have never heard a Torus go the wrong way. But I have heard noise in a system that creates a sound that can be perceived as pleasing. You get use to what you make. You may even gravitate to certain distortions and when they are gone miss them. I believe it is Ralph that has said harmonics can be perceived as dynamics. Get rid of that noise and you think its flat.
When I was building my system a dealer brought over a Ching Cheng type power cord and started replacing my "Audiophile" power cords. I did not like the first couple changes. It was correct as I heard in the end, but as a step sounded wrong. When he finished, the system clicked into place and it was hands down much better.
I agree with Mike. A Torus or Equitech are going to give the same affect. I don't think they are sonically distinguishable from one another. The difference is a wall mount Torus is code compliant. A Equitech is not. Either as a rack mount are compliant as far as I can tell.
It is possible to fight a utiltiy and try for a dedicated padmount that is copper with copper feeds from it to the house. It may also be an insurmountable hill. Many times they brush you off. They have a standard and that stone will not budge. Other times they say sure, your paying.
Once in the house, you very well can set a meter with 2 main breakers and isolate clean from dirty power. You can also filter the dirty side instead of clean side to reduce back polution. But, low level harmonics 1,3,5,7,9,11. Those all seem to walk right through any filter I have measured. Filters are much more effective at filtering high frequency noise.
Copper. I love copper. If you have a remodel going on and have the opportunity to throw out your contractor grade loadcenter and replace it with a all copper industrial panel, do it. That loadcenter is about $300. A industrial panel is $2500. The breakers are the same breaker so same price. I have sat and directly compared them. At least the ones I build out, have a very notable quiet and clean as compared to a loadcenter. There is a simbilance that comes with a loadcenter. My friend and I doing the compare said just changing the panel was on a level of adding a Torus. But different. Copper is not a filter. Its on the most basic level removing the galvanic reaction between dissimilar noblility of metals.
Branch wires. Just use 10 awg NM-B. Solid is way better than stranded. Stranded 10 is fat and tubby. Stranded #8 is too hard and edgy. #10 solid has good balance and is clean.
Grounding. The rod in your yard does nothing for sound. Disconnect it and see for yourself. Listen to your stereo and have a friend pull it. You won't hear a thing.
BUT grounding as pertains to how a panel is made up can be very audible. Just reworking a panel can create a very audible effect of calm and quiet. Other times not so much. It depends on the brand panel and how far off the original wiring was.
This is a hard subject to approach without ruffling feathers.
I have never heard a Torus go the wrong way. But I have heard noise in a system that creates a sound that can be perceived as pleasing. You get use to what you make. You may even gravitate to certain distortions and when they are gone miss them. I believe it is Ralph that has said harmonics can be perceived as dynamics. Get rid of that noise and you think its flat.
When I was building my system a dealer brought over a Ching Cheng type power cord and started replacing my "Audiophile" power cords. I did not like the first couple changes. It was correct as I heard in the end, but as a step sounded wrong. When he finished, the system clicked into place and it was hands down much better.
I agree with Mike. A Torus or Equitech are going to give the same affect. I don't think they are sonically distinguishable from one another. The difference is a wall mount Torus is code compliant. A Equitech is not. Either as a rack mount are compliant as far as I can tell.
You mentioned electronics harmonic distortion enhancing dynamics. The implication there is that at higher power draws, the amp will start to produce audible levels that boost this dynamics perception. But what about at low levels? I have found that SETs, for example, are more dynamic sounding even at low volumes where their harmonic distortion is low and completely innocuous. My point is that not all of the dynamic perception can be this distortion effect. Also, even if cleaning power and reducing distortion is technically "correct" ,if it lessens the emotional engagement of the music, is it a net benefit to the listener? BTW, I use a power regenerator and I find that it has only positive benefits. I have tried filters and some help and some do not...some kill the sound completely, where a regenerator on the same system works beautifully.
Studer A820 reconditioned electrically, mechanically and cosmetically as much as possible. My technician replaced whatever capacitors and bearings and other parts he could.
He removed transformers and as much of what he considered to be superfluous audio electronics as possible. The technician thinks it sounds noticeably better than a stock A820.
I am not using direct head-out (which I assumed I would use with a Doshi). Tape playback is sounding mighty fine to me -- good enough for me. I am not inclined to spend more money on the system.
Last edited:
Germans always want to know everything exactly. Bad habit: Sometimes it is better if you do not ask questions, then you do not get an answer that you do not want to hearRemember Milan, Stephan is German?
Rando and Mike were talking a little about power delivery and how that impacts what you hear.
Two occasions where I experienced this come to mind. One was a CD of Mabel Milan (solo nylon guitar) where there appeared to be much more details/harmonics than I've heard before. Ron's digital came across slightly anemic in the midbass/lower mids so that might explain it.
However, the occasion that stands out was a tape playback of Carole King's Tapestry. Not that this album has stellar sonics but there would be times where some very subtle electric guitar accompaniment appeared at the sides of the soundstage that I had never noticed before. Almost like the session guitarist was just noodling and the producer decided to keep it in the mix at a very low level. While I have an LP of this recording, I haven't listened to it in ages so I can't really compare - and it's not like that sort of thing is going to be noticeable on a car radio for example. I think it's just fair to say that I had simply never noticed it before.
Thanks for the response , agree when it all comes together , hitting the brakes makes sense ..
Regards
Hahaha - Agree !Germans always want to know everything exactly. Bad habit: Sometimes it is better if you do not ask questions, then you do not get an answer that you do not want to hear
More esay to ask a Swede, he will just propose a ’swedish fika’ instead?
!!By the way Ron,
After reading Al’s and Ian’s posts, I must say it seem like your system finally has settle down and performs the way you always wanted it to sound… For that I take my hat of for you. Congratulations!! No easy task to set up a big systems like that in a new renovated room, specially with all these many angles and different ceiling you have.. Very impressive indeed.. Hope I get the chance to here it some day… All the best,
/ Jk
After reading Al’s and Ian’s posts, I must say it seem like your system finally has settle down and performs the way you always wanted it to sound… For that I take my hat of for you. Congratulations!! No easy task to set up a big systems like that in a new renovated room, specially with all these many angles and different ceiling you have.. Very impressive indeed.. Hope I get the chance to here it some day… All the best,
/ Jk
There is no right or wrong here, obviously. It is simple cost/benefit analysis.
I personally don't enjoy the (perfectly legitimate and fully respectable) sub-hobby of box swapping and endless fiddling and endless tweaking. At some point I like to be done, pencils down.
I still have big things to work on on the system. But I am satisfied with tape playback, and I will not be looking to get to a higher level there.
If Ron needs to fix the midbass/lower mids in his digital then he needs a Kassandra or Helene DAC. No more worries about this critical range.
