Ron’s New System

[LL21]

Hi, can you please recollect if these impressions came while playing digital, TT, tape, or all 3?

The reason I ask is because you yourself are digital only so not clear how your auditioning process was.

Hi...wow lots of comments since I posted.

Ron was very kind, and we listened to vinyl, tape and digital (both disc and streaming). I heard analog albums (where at least I had heard the album before on digital), as well as digital where I knew the album and owned it as well...but recognize that digital is definitely not a priority for Ron but only a convenience primarily for visitors.

My comments were made based on the overall impression across the board from the global listening experience. Hope that helps provide some context.

 

[LL21]

Nice report, Lloyd. On your point 3., I am an orchestra front row guy, and I loved the relatively upfront presentation of Ron's system. Sure, on some recordings such a presentation reveals artifacts more, like exaggerated left/right hand split on piano, but I would not be willing to adjust listening perspective in order to accommodate recording artifacts.

As for acoustic treatments, I think they work just great in the room, not too much, not too little, and with a natural result.

Obviously, tastes differ.

Totally hear you. It really is quite a system.

 

[PeterA]

My comments were made based on the overall impression across the board from the global listening experience. Hope that helps provide some context.

This is how I too form opinions about system performance when a system has multiple sources.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I keep reading that people set up their systems differently for analog and digital. I don’t question that or criticize the approach. However, the best system I have heard was not set up for a specific format, and it presented the best analog and digital I’ve ever heard. I’m sure I need to get out more.

I am curious about Ron’s thinking on this topic. He makes a strong argument for him at least that speaker choice reflects genre preference. He is certainly an analog guy, both tape and vinyl, so I wonder if Ron specifically set his system up for analogue playback.

Hello Peter,

The idea of setting up a system differently for analog versus digital makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't think that way, so I definitely did not do anything specific to optimize analog playback versus digital playback.

Perhaps Ron can tell us a little bit more about the listening perspective he prefers when hearing live music and how or if that relates to his specific set up decisions in his room.

In Walt Disney Concert Hall I like to sit towards the back of the first orchestra section to the first few rows of the next section back:

 

[Ron Resnick]

Very simply, just the gain/impedance match can be optimised for only one. Have you not heard a TT set up that lacks enerhy and drive? Either cartridge is not matched properly with the phono, or phono with preamp,

The Io has variable gain going into the preamp. The output of the audio electronics of the tape machine is fixed, but it could be attenuated. The output of the Baltic 4 is fixed, but it could be attenuated.

There is just no problem to be solved here; no excuse for suboptimal gain matching for any source.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am interested in whether or not Ron set up his speakers, electrical infrastructure, room acoustics and things like cable choices based on analog or digital.

No, I did not. Again, the whole concept makes no sense to me.

My chemical grounds and electrical infrastructure and cables and acoustic treatment and amplifiers do not favor one source versus another.

 

[bonzo75]

No, I did not. Again, the whole concept makes no sense to me.

My chemical grounds and electrical infrastructure and cables and acoustic treatment and amplifiers do not favor one source versus another.

so you optimised your digital? What’s your source

you did all your auditions on digital?

 

[bonzo75]

Ron's post, and his theme for many years, which no one who does follow him could have missed.

"Someday, if the house is ever finished, and the listening room is ever finished, and I ever hatch the stereo system in the listening room, and it all works and does not explode, then someday in the future I probably will try to have in the system at the same time for a direct comparison an MSB DAC and a similarly priced Lampizator. WBF members will be welcome to join me and we can have a true and valid (in my idiosyncratic system anyway) direct comparison.

But please understand that I have no desire whatsoever to achieve digital playback at the level of what I hope my vinyl playback and what I hope my tape playback will achieve. I simply want a mid-level streaming capability because I think it is nice to be able to hand to my audiophile guests and to Tinka and to Tinka's friends an iPad so they can play whatever they want on Qobuz."

Pimped out Premier or Lampi Pacific?

let's not go down this road. mud slinging one forum to another can only come to grief. like crapping where you eat. if you ask me (i acknowledge no one is;)) we should delete the related posts. this thread is contentious enough without adding that. and then there is the stones and glass houses...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Ron Resnick]

so you optimised your digital? What’s your source

you did all your auditions on digital?

No, I did not optimize my digital. Again, your premise makes no sense to me.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron's post, and his theme for many years, which no one who does follow him could have missed.

"Someday, if the house is ever finished, and the listening room is ever finished, and I ever hatch the stereo system in the listening room, and it all works and does not explode, then someday in the future I probably will try to have in the system at the same time for a direct comparison an MSB DAC and a similarly priced Lampizator. WBF members will be welcome to join me and we can have a true and valid (in my idiosyncratic system anyway) direct comparison.

But please understand that I have no desire whatsoever to achieve digital playback at the level of what I hope my vinyl playback and what I hope my tape playback will achieve. I simply want a mid-level streaming capability because I think it is nice to be able to hand to my audiophile guests and to Tinka and to Tinka's friends an iPad so they can play whatever they want on Qobuz."

Pimped out Premier or Lampi Pacific?

let's not go down this road. mud slinging one forum to another can only come to grief. like crapping where you eat. if you ask me (i acknowledge no one is;)) we should delete the related posts. this thread is contentious enough without adding that. and then there is the stones and glass houses...

www.whatsbestforum.com

By "optimizing" do you mean spending the same amount of money on each source?

 

[bonzo75]

No, I did not optimize my digital. Again, your premise makes no sense to me.

The premise need not make sense. The fact that you chose to not optimise your digital is a fact that some readers seemed to ignore.

 

[bonzo75]

By "optimizing" do you mean spending the same amount of money on each source?

No not at all.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The premise need not make sense. The fact that you chose to not optimise your digital is a fact that some readers seemed to ignore.

1) I swapped some tubes on the DAC to achieve a sound I preferred.

2) I'm using a dedicated streamer rather than a laptop.

3) I'm using a dedicated linear power supply rather than a switching power supply.

4) I'm using an "audiophile grade" connecting cable.

In what way did I not optimize my digital (other than not spending a lot of money on it)?

 

[bonzo75]

In what way did I not optimize my digital (other than not spending a lot of money on it)?

First, is your objective. There are people who spend money on a lot of hifi gear without any research or objective, they have the money so they just ask someone to install some speakers that look appropriate to the furniture and leave. Is this optimisation? No. It could have a lot of money behind it.

By your own account of the post I linked above, you had no intention of getting your digital to your vinyl/tape level. Contrast this to Mike's objective.

Now Mike's analog might not be the same price as his digital, but we all know he has put a lot of research behind it, tried various alternatives, done all that he possibly can in terms set up to get the best out of it and go as far as he can on his TT set up. Imagine instead, that he bought a Rega, put a rbasic cartridge on it, did not spend time aligning it, did all his auditions on digital instead of on vinyl. What would be the point of visiting him with LPs? One should then visit his house only to listen to digital.

If you wanted to optimise your digital, you would have done much further investigations on digital, on the optimising of the ethernet etc, tube swapping, than you have. You would have done streamer shootouts, CD player vs streamer, different recordings of digital. Plus, not stayed with the basic level of Lampi which is in stark contrast to going with the top model of the Brinkmann, with the top models of Reed, Zyx, and Grado. Think in contrast of a guy who buys the Horizon, but instead buys the lowest model of Zyx and Grado, consiously a low model TT, and the lowest Aesthetix phono model. The level of efforts is clearly lopsided. Do you think the latter guy is interested in optimizing his analog?

Which is fine for your objective. But then I just don't se ethe point of evaluating your system on digital .Similarly, if one went to Rudolf's place, they should evaluate his system with digital.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Plus, not stayed with the basic level of Lampi which is in stark contrast to going with the top model of the Brinkmann, with the top models of Reed, Zyx, and Grado. Think in contrast of a guy who buys the Horizon, but instead buys the lowest model of Zyx and Grado, consiously a low model TT, and the lowest Aesthetix phono model. The level of efforts is clearly lopsided. Do you think the latter guy is interested in optimizing his analog?

I don't know why you're trying so hard to find an argument.

So your point is at least partly about asymmetry of dollars committed. Which is what I stipulated in the first place.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't know why you're trying so hard to find an argument.

So your point is at least partly about asymmetry of dollars committed. Which is what I stipulated in the first place.

Not at all. It is about asymmetry at consciously choosing a bottom model for one and a top model for another.

I did not start the argument - I asked Lloyod if his impressions were on digital, tape, vinyl, or all 3 because that would give insights, since he is used to evaluating on digital. If Mike had written that report, I would not have asked that question.

peter's replies missed that point and made it about vinyl and digital optimisation, to which I replied, you then jumped in not responding to the proper posts which made it seem like you had optimised digital which you hadn't.

 

[bonzo75]

Back to the point - does anyone think that if the impression was only on digital, and not on vinyl and tape, it does not change the reading? And that this scenario cannot be possible? And is therefore not a valid question?

 

[cjfrbw]

Reminds me of the time I played some bits to a guy and I said they were some 'hi res' digital. He said that it sounded really good and what was the resolution? I told him it was 128kbps. He said he thought I told him it was hi res. I said: "Well, it is compared to 64kbps". He knew I was making fun, but he took it in good humor. I could almost hear the crash and smell the dust as his estimations re-calibrated. Veblens digital seems to be like that.

 

[PeterA]

Not at all. It is about asymmetry at consciously choosing a bottom model for one and a top model for another.

I did not start the argument - I asked Lloyod if his impressions were on digital, tape, vinyl, or all 3 because that would give insights, since he is used to evaluating on digital. If Mike had written that report, I would not have asked that question.

peter's replies missed that point and made it about vinyl and digital optimisation, to which I replied, you then jumped in not responding to the proper posts which made it seem like you had optimised digital which you hadn't.

I did not miss your point once you clarified it. You said you did not mean it the way micro strip does. So that is fine. If I go somewhere to hear someone system, if there is time I will listen to the various sources regardless of whether the guy has spent the same amount on them. It’s the system as presented and Ron has all three sources so I would evaluate it listening to all three, simply out of curiosity. And then I would comment on how the three sources differ as Al did in his report. You were making some point about Lloyd and L listening to digital only at home. I listen to vinyl only at home. That doesn’t mean I don’t listen to digital in other peoples systems and I am not able to form an opinion.

By the way, Ron told Al and Ian to bring CDs with them before their visit.

 

[bonzo75]

You were making some point about Lloyd listening to digital only at home.

Yes, and he auditions on digital, which is why I asked him if his impressions were from the the three sources or only one - is that not a valid question?