Ron’s New System

[Kingrex]

I can tell you this much, all those room treatments and active bass traps are a lot more responsible for the sound than those two woofer columns.

Ok. I accept that. I don't know I would put multiple unused drivers in a room. A friend of mine has a very well tuned room. But he was sort of stuck. He drug some unused speakers out of his room and once they were gone said the whole system clicked much better.

I think I am saying, leave as many speakers in your room as you want if your goal is cycling gear and listening to all sorts of different equipment. If however your goal is to fine tune a system and make it as good as can be, get rid of unnecessary speakers that are doing something.

Ron appears to me to be stuck in no mans land. Unfortunate. Too bad there isn't a easier way to move things around.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Yep the Gryphon system has better attack and midbass integration and dynamic range and more contrasts and energy - the Jadis Clarisys seems limpid and homogenised. Think Jadis is underdriving. could be because of the mix of electronics with Jadis, the VTL flows more because or VTL pre power pairing.

Thats easy to predict you gotta move everything away from the panels and yes the Jadis is grossly underpowering the panels..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

That's why I say video are a good way to stand back and get a outside perspective of what your personal system is doing.
And to get a general idea what someone elses is doing. But its broad based. That is why I asked your thoughts on what we say we hear on the video to what you hear in the room.

No more than 5 ft back from loudspeakers for any accuracy or consistency when recording ..!

 

[Kingrex]

So does Jay. The hobbyists on WBF don’t get paid or advertise their services.

Lots are professional on WBF. And pay for the opportunity to comment.

 

[PeterA]

Lots are professional on WBF. And pay for the opportunity to comment.

Yes, WBF is full of industry participants in advertisers. I’m referring to the hobbyist who are on the threads. I don’t know any of them who charge for their services or advertise those services.

Someone made the point about Ron. He is a dealer and has a website and advertises his system advising services. He is very clear about his industry status.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ok. I accept that. I don't know I would put multiple unused drivers in a room. A friend of mine has a very well tuned room. But he was sort of stuck. He drug some unused speakers out of his room and once they were gone said the whole system clicked much better.

I think I am saying, leave as many speakers in your room as you want if your goal is cycling gear and listening to all sorts of different equipment. If however your goal is to fine tune a system and make it as good as can be, get rid of unnecessary speakers that are doing something.

Ron appears to me to be stuck in no mans land. Unfortunate. Too bad there isn't a easier way to move things around.

the way this works as far as influence, is that you don't know what you don't know when you have random resonators in your room. the reflective distortion noise floor of your system might be higher than the resonator influence. so until you get to the point of treating all the reflective distortion, the issues and influences are not revealed.

will inert unpowered drivers have an influence? yes, of course. they do what they do. can you hear it? who knows?

Could be just a slight loss of dynamics or tonal shift.

not picking on Carlos here at all, just how things work. i fully respect his opinions about it. and have my own too.

 

[Carlos269]

the way this works as far as influence, is that you don't know what you don't know when you have random resonators in your room. the reflective distortion noise floor of your system might be higher than the resonator influence. so until you get to the point of treating all the reflective distortion, the issues and influences are not revealed.

will inert unpowered drivers have an influence? yes, of course. they do what they do. can you hear it? who knows?

not picking on Carlos here at all, just how things work. i fully respect his opinions about it. and have my own too.

The beauty of it all is that you don’t need to focus on all these separate elements because the only things that matters is the composite resultant sound. The resultant sound is the only thing any system should be judged by, whether it sounds good or bad. You can always speculate on the contributions from each piece of matter in the universe, or in the room, but I prefer to accept those things as given and instead focus on tuning the sound of my system instead of worrying myself with other things.

 

[Kingrex]

We all have to work with what we have. I have a living room with taut leather furniture. I'm sure its vocal. Heck, I shove the sofa back 3 feet, ,move my listening chair, close a shade part way and push an absorber into place before real listening. I had another set of speakers in the back of the room for a while. I am confident I would have much better sound with a clean room and propper treatment. All the rest are deteiments. The severe 50 hert role off and other frequency anomalies tell the truth. My setup is not optimal to get the most from my equipment.

 

[Carlos269]

We all have to work with what we have. I have a living room with taut leather furniture. I'm sure its vocal. Heck, I shove the sofa back 3 feet, ,move my listening chair, close a shade part way and push an absorber into place before real listening. I had another set of speakers in the back of the room for a while. I am confident I would have much better sound with a clean room and propper treatment. All the rest are deteiments. The severe 50 hert role off and other frequency anomalies tell the truth. My setup is not optimal to get the most from my equipment.

Well I could sit here a type about of words but I rather direct you take a look at the pictures of my listening rooms and then listen to the sound of the audio recordings of my systems. I tune each one based on the resultant sound that I get at my listening position and absolutely nothing else is considered except the sound that I hear when I’m listening in that chair.

 

[Elliot G.]

Sorry everything in the room influences the sound. I have been doing single speaker demo rooms most of my life. I know that this is not always a possibilty , even in my showroom, but there is a difference when the other speakers are removed.
It seems to me that many here want it both ways. The want the ability to talk and hear everything but then on the other hand they want to do things wrong and say that is ok. Which is it cause you can't have it both ways. Are you comromising? thats fine but admit it. If you think you are not then you are being dishonest.
Acoustic treatments make a difference and in many locations they are used incorrectly. Audio people seem to generally over do things and room treatments are a prime example of if 2 are good ten is better.

 

[sbnx]

1) If you hear any differences, how do you describe the differences you hear?

2) Which do you prefer?

3) Why do you prefer it?

#512 is clearly better. Clearer in the intro guitar plucking and the vibrato of her voice in the intro.

 

[Carlos269]

Sorry everything in the room influences the sound.

This is a classic example of “can’t see the forest for the trees” mentality that permeates high-end audio today.

Maybe when I retire I will set up workshops to demystify sound reproduction at home.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well I could sit here a type about of words but I rather direct you take a look at the pictures of my listening rooms and then listen to the sound of the audio recordings of my systems. I tune each one based on the resultant sound that I get at my listening position and absolutely nothing else is considered except the sound that I hear when I’m listening in that chair.

what we don't know is how much better, if at all, your system would sound if you approached acoustics as seriously as you do your WAAR process? it's a big commitment especially considering how positive you view where you are. understandable.

i know dealing with Trinnov and my home theater system; they are dsp kings, and have an involved speaker set-up guide along with their support. one strong message from them is that dsp can only work with what the room allows it to work with. it does best when the room acoustics are solved. in my case my wife has prevented me from doing much to the walls of my home theater (it's in her domain); so i know i'm not getting everything out of my multi-channel as i could.....even with SOTA dsp.

Trinnov_Loudspeaker_Position_Guide_2020.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Elliot G.]

This is a classic example of “can’t see the forest for the trees” mentality that permeates high-end audio today.

Maybe when I retire I will set up workshops to demystify sound reproduction at home.

Actually the forest is your arrogance to accept that anyone other than you knows something.
Everyone in audio is stupid Carlos except you, let us all bend the knee!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Actually the forest is your arrogance to accept that anyone other than you knows something.
Everyone in audio is stupid Carlos except you, let us all bend the knee!

And on top of that Carlos wants to establish workshops in the future where we have to pay ( i assume ) to hear how stupid we are

 

[Carlos269]

what we don't know is how much better, if at all, your system would sound if you approached acoustics as seriously as you do your WAAR process? it's a big commitment especially considering how positive you view where you are. understandable.

i know dealing with Trinnov and my home theater system; they are dsp kings, and have an involved speaker set-up guide along with their support. one strong message from them is that dsp can only work with what the room allows it to work with. it does best when the room acoustics are solved. in my case my wife has prevented me from doing much to the walls of my home theater (it's in her domain); so i know i'm not getting everything out of my multi-channel as i could.....even with SOTA dsp.

Trinnov_Loudspeaker_Position_Guide_2020.pdf

drive.google.com

I just cannot seem to get through to you guys. The composite resultant sound already has the contributions from the room and artifacts factored into it. Changing the room acoustics or adding or removing items from the room would change those contributions but NOT my goal or target for the resultant sound; so the room or the artifacts in the rooms do not matter as my goal remains the same. I don’t have to speculate about how much better or worse some would sound because I just don’t care, the only thing that I care about and focus on is attaining my desire sound from my systems.

 

[Carlos269]

Actually the forest is your arrogance to accept that anyone other than you knows something.
Everyone in audio is stupid Carlos except you, let us all bend the knee!

You don’t get it at all. The goal is to achieve a desired target under any and all conditions so why should I care about the conditions?

The great Vince Lombardi had a saying: “Obstacles are what you see, when you lose sight of the goal”.

 

[andromedaaudio]

People shouldn t necessarily pay for consultants , imv, they should try things themselves
But i do think Rons place can be a good place for people who want to hear Clarysis transducers

I think Jadis / VTL would be good matches.

 

[Carlos269]

Actually the forest is your arrogance to accept that anyone other than you knows something.
Everyone in audio is stupid Carlos except you, let us all bend the knee!

My goal remains constant no matter what room my systems are in or what ever other items are in those rooms, so frankly I don’t even think about room acoustics or items I. The room.

 

[Elliot G.]

OK got it now. You are correct and everyone else in the world is wrong.