I never said or implied that you had ! I read that sentence as being that this phenomenon was the belief of the two owners of the transducers and that my question was thrown open to the forum , yourself included .
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Ron, why do you attribute this sense of realism to the Bionors? You were listening to a whole system. I have spoken to David at length about what is responsible for what. He attributes much of what you describe to his superior power delivery, the Neumann cartridge, and his AS2000 design. When I changed my power, from grounding to in wall wires to outlets and power cords, I heard a massive improvement in the weight, impact and fullness of the upper bass to lower midrange presentation.
Again, I do not think of the sound of ddk’s or my system in terms of “center of gravity”. One hallmark of natural sound is balance, not a particular range as your vocabulary implies to me. I think it all matters.
This is not correct. Rolloff is a term related to a measurement. David has never told me that his speakers are not rolled off. I have never described my speakers as not rolled off in terms of frequency extension. I don’t know what measurements would reveal. I know that some people add a super tweeter to my speakers. The specs for my speakers go to about 15,000 Hz.
I have asked listeners who know live music who told me that compared to what we hear live, my system, not speakers, does not sound rolled off. I agree with that. That is an important distinction. It does not mean that other speakers and systems are not more extended. I know they are because I can hear it. The important thing for me and the only basis on which I judge, is how it sounds to me compared to live music.
We do not need to come up with some agreement. This is not what matters to me. You seem to have a need to know which is fine. To me it is irrelevant. I selected what I own and then set it up and fine tuned it with David’s help based on what I heard not on measurements. Others follow a different approach.
I agree. That is why people make different choices. They prefer different sounds for their own reasons.
This sounds like a search for justification. We all like different sounding systems for our own reasons. You have made your choices for your reasons and I respect that and hope you continue to enjoy your system for years to come.
I hope you come to understand the origin of that feeling. If you do, I would be very interested in your thoughts.
We all have our own goals and approaches to achieve them.
OK maybe not perfect, but I think some speakers rise well above the rest because they have fewer or far fewer compromises and along with the right chosen system and room and properly set up, they get quite close to the real thing in terms of listening experience, but that is a discussion for another day.
Ron’s claim that I don’t believe my speakers are rolled off is not correct. The question is compared to what. I am talking about perception compared to live. He is talking about measurements compared to other speakers or some standard number.
As I wrote, people add super tweeters to my speakers. The Vox Olympian also has a super tweeter. Some people prefer this type of sound. Nothing wrong with different opinions. I listen to my system and to David's system and compare them both to my memory of live instruments. I do not notice a deficiency in high frequency response or lack of realism in either system. If there is less treble extension then other speakers based on measurements, I would not deny that. Ron is simply mischaracterizing my thoughts. I respond to him above.
Last edited:
Thank you Peter , you answered my query perfectly within your previous post .
Good catch on my false dichotomy. You are totally correct. It's entirely possible that David's Bionors and Peter's Vitavoxes do not roll off treble frequencies and that some contemporary loudspeakers emphasize treble frequencies.
I mistakenly created the false dichotomy because I implicitly assumed that it would be one or the other -- that if David and Peter are correct that their speakers objectively are not rolling off treble frequencies, then they would both also be correct that some contemporary loudspeakers objectively are emphasizing treble frequencies, and vice-versa.
I agree here, too. It is possible that subjective listening impressions simply will not be able to be reconciled with objective measurements. An example of this is my system currently: I hear extended frequency response to the treble frequencies, but the objective measurement shows strong roll off.
Of course all transducer designs begin to roll off as the output approaches the upper frequency extremes, but I am talking about roll off at a much lower treble frequency region -- starting at around, say, 8 kHz or 10 kHz.
To see if and how much they roll off is easy to see with a measurement , which is always good to do as you gain knowledge about your own system
I doubt anybody hears a 20 khz tone .
If Peters speakers only go to 12 - 15 khz i dont think he ll miss much .
Most is happening in the midrange , and its quit possible peters horn is more natural / better then anything else in that area ( at least to his ears /music preference ) , i dont know
I doubt anybody hears a 20 khz tone .
If Peters speakers only go to 12 - 15 khz i dont think he ll miss much .
Most is happening in the midrange , and its quit possible peters horn is more natural / better then anything else in that area ( at least to his ears /music preference ) , i dont know
Last edited:
Thank you for explaining and clarifying. I did not mean to mischaracterize anything.
I had a strong impression from our conversations that you believe that some contemporary loudspeakers exaggerate and emphasize treble frequencies, and that your speakers do not roll off treble frequencies. But my discussion as it relates to you should have stayed entirely within the subjective domain, because I also know that you would not care what any measurements might indicate.
I should have written merely as a exogenous matter that I am curious to know how your speakers would measure objectively.
Thank you for correcting me.
Vox Olympian as well as the lower priced older living voice using the same driver for mids and backloaded horn, but they are 4-way not just 3-way. Olympian has TAD 2002 (1-inch driver) and TAD tweeter (ET 703), both drivers same as Tang's top two high frequency drivers, and the older living voice air scout has JBL 2405 tweeter and Vitavox super tweeter.
OK, I am not curious about the specifics. I am simply saying that some people add super tweeters to speakers like mine because they want something more. I have chosen not to do that because I do not feel I am missing anything in the highs and don't want to mess with altering the sound. Different values.
Nothing temporary about Marcs's Zus, he has already made his burial plans, and they include the Zus !
The trade off is
With that petrol can next to the NAT, the above scenario can happen with temp gear too
Nothing temporary about Marcs's Zus, he has already made his burial plans, and they include the Zus !
With that petrol can next to the NAT, the above scenario can happen with temp gear too
Dismembered into stereo portions I assume If employed as sarcophagi !?!?Nothing temporary about Marcs's Zus, he has already made his burial plans, and they include the Zus !
Do you happen to know the approximate xover point of the main woofer bin (not the subwoofer) to the TAD 2002 in the VOX OLYMPIAN?
I know
There is an AS2000 inbound
How completely was it drop tested before going out the door
At least 5m or all the way to 7m
How completely was it drop tested before going out the door
At least 5m or all the way to 7m
No one can lift it up that high. It weighs too much.
I have a fair amount of confidence his TT will be shipped safely without encountering any sorting machines or 7m (23') freefalls. This confidence extends through abilities of his moving team to safely lower it a similarly large distance into his listening room.