I think there is a law against using a tweak more expensive than your TT !
Marc got charged 3 times already !
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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Marc got charged 3 times already !
My pleasure, Peter!
Compared to our private discussions, I feel like you are pulling punches here.
private is private. This is public.
I hear David's Bionors as achieving the upper bass/lower midrange center of gravity which I think maximizes realism and natural sound on instruments. Karen Sumner has advocated for getting right this critical 100Hz to 1,000Hz region. I have not heard a dynamic driver in a box loudspeaker or a planar loudspeaker that can achieve the overall realism -- the power, weight, energy and body -- on instruments that I hear from David's system.
l know that David believes that his system does not roll off treble frequencies, and I know that you believe that your system does not roll off treble frequencies. I don't know what a external microphone and frequency analyzer would reveal.
I know you believe that these systems are not rolling off treble frequencies; rather, you believe that many contemporary systems emphasize or exaggerate treble frequencies. I honestly don't know which is correct. I would answer this question with measurements. Absent objective frequency response measurements of different kinds of systems I am not sure we will ever be able to come to an agreement on whether Bionors are rolling off treble frequencies or contemporary loudspeakers are exaggerating treble frequencies based on theory and subjective listening.
Whatever Bionors (and, I am sure, Vitavoxes) are doing objectively, there is no doubt to me that, subjectively, they sound different than, and subjectively they have a different tonal balance than, and subjectively they have a different sonic center of gravity than, Alsyvox, Magico, Wilson, Marten, Tidal, YG, Zellaton, and most other contemporary loudspeakers which celebrate the "frequency extremes."
I love the sound of David's system, and I am sure I would love the sound of your system and conceptually similar systems (I like the sound of Jeff Tyo's system) for piano and violin and guitar and other string instruments and brass instruments -- for classical and for jazz. I have posted and said numerous times that if my primary musical genre interest were classical or jazz there is no doubt I would have a horn-type system, and very possibly a vintage horn-type system. (The current production Destination Audio Vista and Malta, and Viva Audio Master Horn and Tune Audio Avaton look promising as contemporary candidates that might also achieve the upper bass/lower midrange center of gravity which I think achieves realism and natural sound on instruments.)
Separately, but relatedly, I believe that David's Bionors and the Tannoy Westminster and the two-way JBL Hartsfield (Jeff has the three-way), while achieving the upper bass/lower midrange sonic center of gravity that I like, nonetheless leave me with an odd feeling that something is missing in the treble frequencies. Emotional engagement-wise and subjective sonic preference-wise I don't miss whatever I sense is missing. (I don't care that something is missing.) But I do sense that something is missing.
I am working on nudging down the sonic center of gravity of my system. But fundamentally I am solving for a different sonic suspension of disbelief equation than you are.
I am not trying to maximize naturalness and suspension of disbelief on acoustic instruments. I am trying to maximize naturalness and suspension of disbelief for a vocalist singing to me in my listening room. And for that, to my ears, the openness and transparency of planars gives me more towards believability on vocals than I lose from sacrificing the upper bass/lower midrange sonic center of gravity I enjoy so much, and which I find maximizes naturalness and tonal density and weight, on acoustic instruments.
I believe that no loudspeaker is perfect, and that every speaker -- no matter the size and no matter the cost -- requires thoughtful analysis and conscious, unavoidable compromises.
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Ron, I am super interested in PSI AVAA's and nearly ordered a pair for use at Axpona. Please let me know what results you achieve with these fascinating devices.
Looks impressive........ So what does it bring to the "TABLE"........
I think there is a law against using a tweak more expensive than your TT !
I think the Marc law applies to using tweaks more expensive than the system, not TT
or possessing them…
sometimes the message is in the straight normal playback…this is a hobby where you can check in anytime you like but you can never leave. Especially if you live in California
I have heard Perahia play 3, 4, 5 live across a couple of concerts.
How do you recommend getting good quality recordings of his playback on analog?
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Zero Distortion: Dalby Record Weight
Just a brief write-up on one of my favorite tweaks http://zero-distortion.org/dalby-record-weight/
www.whatsbestforum.com
...and costs 10 times the price of the Denon and HanaThat thing looks like it weights more than the turntable Ron !
This range is where my Odeon horns also deliver a lot of realism…also the midbass drive and punch
You say Peter believes neither his Vitavox nor David's Bionar system roll off treble frequencies. You say Peter believes that some modern systems emphasize treble frequencies. You imply that one of those beliefs needs to be false for the other to be true. Really ? I see no contradiction in holding both beliefs. Why do you believe they need to be reconciled?
So your reference becomes a measurement?
What do you hear in the concert hall?
The notion that there is an objective frequency response against which listening is assessed and gauged correct or not is a dire turn of direction that ultimately leads to grading/gauging peoples hearing. Is that where you want to go?
All transducer designs begin to roll off as the output approaches the upper frequency extremes , varying in how rapidly and by how much across disparate designs , what makes the Vitavox and Bioner miraculously immune to this physics related phenomenon?
A simple in room frequency sweep via ROON or similar would answer this moot point referencing these two speaker systems No !
A simple in room frequency sweep via ROON or similar would answer this moot point referencing these two speaker systems No !
Ron - very interesting comments. And I have to say, I think that is partly where Gryphon's balance is coming from...there is a foundational solidity and realism that they deliver in that lower center of gravity you refer to. While it should not be at the expense of other areas, this foundational element is special if you hear it and like it. (I do.)
...and costs 10 times the price of the Denon and Hana
Denon and Hana are temporary. Like Marc’s Zus. The tweaks are for future planned upgrades.
You quote an incomplete sentence. Ron's claim, not mine. Doesn't have anything to do with physics.