Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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"Exactly where you want it"is not a bad outcome !
It looked to me from the plots that it was a little smoother overall after the changes ... could just be a slight change in mic position.
A live sound is very engaging but can overwhelm on large pieces
It is interesting that research into preferences of listeners of concert hall sound broadly fall into 2 categories. "Strong reverbarant field and increased loudness" or "more clarity and definition" It seems to me this defines the camps in hifi as well and explains a lot of the to and fro on natural sound, magico vs horns etc.
Of course we know that dipoles are the one true path
Thank you for asking!
After spending the afternoon yesterday at her regular doctor, and the entire day today at the emergency hospital, the conclusion is that she does not have another intestinal or stomach blockage. So that is good. As long as that possibility has been eliminated, we don't really care what it is, because whatever it is she'll be fine.
Total bill for both days: $4,000. Lola undoubtedly is the most expensive cockerpoo in dog history.
I am playing Sarah McLachlan's "Witness." That track has a repetitive beat at what must be exactly the frequency that excites this problem in the room. (Check out by streaming "Witness" what I'm talking about. Think about the sound of 60Hz ground hum and you'll know which repetitive sound from the track I'm talking about.)
At the woofer level I have been using (usually -2.5 or -3.0) I think the problem is basically gone. I can even raise the woofer level to -1.0, and I think it still sounds fine. For the time being I will keep it at -1.5. (By the way the woofer level goes up to +10.0!)
And, of course, raising the woofer level gooses 100Hz to 300Hz, which has the effect of lowering the sonic center of gravity of the system, which is the direction in which I am trying to head.
I am not moving a single thing that Jason installed or adjusted yesterday, at least until I spend several weeks listening to this new set-up.
I forgot to mention that achieving this bass boom improvement required moving the listening chair forward four or five inches. I have to see if this has screwed up the clear center imaging of a solo vocalist.
My initial reaction is that I'm going to consider this room boom problem solved!
At the woofer level I have been using (usually -2.5 or -3.0) I think the problem is basically gone. I can even raise the woofer level to -1.0, and I think it still sounds fine. For the time being I will keep it at -1.5. (By the way the woofer level goes up to +10.0!)
And, of course, raising the woofer level gooses 100Hz to 300Hz, which has the effect of lowering the sonic center of gravity of the system, which is the direction in which I am trying to head.
I am not moving a single thing that Jason installed or adjusted yesterday, at least until I spend several weeks listening to this new set-up.
I forgot to mention that achieving this bass boom improvement required moving the listening chair forward four or five inches. I have to see if this has screwed up the clear center imaging of a solo vocalist.
My initial reaction is that I'm going to consider this room boom problem solved!
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Witness is available on Tidal at
Master level. I don't think the Meze goes that low. I'll have to pull out the HD800S.
Nice album.
Surfacing / Sarah McLachlan – TIDAL
Master level. I don't think the Meze goes that low. I'll have to pull out the HD800S.
Nice album.
Surfacing / Sarah McLachlan – TIDAL
I suspect listening seat location has a great deal to do with the improvement. Now the question is: how much is the result of the stuff he brought into the room and how much is simply a new seat location.
I appreciate the asymmetry of the upper half of the room and having to deal with that imbalance. I am glad you are noticing an improvement. It seems as though you’re high frequencies start falling off a little bit later also. Did you happen to show him the frequency plot and ask him if he thought that corresponds to what you are hearing from the listening seat? It seems to me that the 40 DB or so drop from 50 Hz to 15 K is a lot.
Peter, pink noise is not flat .. it drops 30db from 20 hz to 20khz so that plot actually shows a quite flat response which is a very good result.
Cheers
Phil
Why do you suspect this?
In response to one of your prior questions and your suggestion that I observe the room boom on real time frequency analyzer as I change the seating position, I discovered that as I move the seat forward towards the speakers the room boom declines in frequency to about 45Hz. But I do not think the amplitude of the boom problem was affected materially. Also, that puts the seating position too far forward.
Jason said yesterday that he thinks the two (now we believe it is two) room boom anomalies are due to the dimensions of the room and the asymmetric ceiling height, not to loudspeaker wall boundary issues.
Keep in mind that changing the seating position changes the perceived frequency (and, maybe, the perceived amplitude) of the room boom. It doesn't physically address the room boom.
The TubeTraps and the AVAAs are intended to physically address the acoustic pressure of the room boom frequencies in the room. Merely changing seating position does not accomplish that.
I’m not saying seating position is everything. I’m saying it might have an effect and we don’t know how much of an effect.
Jim Smith adjust for seating position first. once the seating is in the location for the smoothest bass frequencies, then all else is adjusted in terms of speaker position and orientation.
that is just one approach. I am glad you are happy with the results of the latest changes.
Jim Smith adjust for seating position first. once the seating is in the location for the smoothest bass frequencies, then all else is adjusted in terms of speaker position and orientation.
that is just one approach. I am glad you are happy with the results of the latest changes.
Thank you Phil for explaining that. So what are plots that indicate only a 10 or 20 dB drop from 20 to 20K telling us that is different from what Ron’s plot shows?
This is sounding better than I remember previous videos having. Will be interesting to hear how further changes are shaped by introduction of a different TT.
Peter, I guess they suggest a emphasis in high fr ( or rolled off bass) but I am not sure how accurate the ipad is .. or if folks have a consistent method of measuring ... as I write this I wonder if pink noise is 100 percent consistent in its slope accross the various sources !
The various windows ( blackman in this case) will show a different result below say 1000hz but they should be similar above
I suspect it suggests an overall trend rather than an accurate plot , handy guide but not definitive.
However in Rons case it seems to have helped sort out the bass .. and shows the result you would expect from a high quality speaker.. it would be great if it is a decent measurement system
It would be helpful if Ron optimizes the back wave from his panels on this front. He has been hesitant to do so due to weight, but sliders with Dons help will solve that issue.
This is true.
But I like the depth I am getting with the speakers about 8 feet in front of the front wall.
Even though I have never before absorbed or diffused the back wave of any planar dipole speaker I have ever had, I ordered four 96" x 30" x 1" thick absorption panels to experiment with different levels of absorption of the back wave.
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With Dipoles, I would definitely AVOID absorption behind the speakers and OPT FOR diffusion.
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