Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

Ron has always been polite, gracious and accepting as far as I can tell, and he did recommend continuing the digital discussion in another thread when he wrote, "Feel free to start a new thread on this topic."

So, there appears to be opportunity for those posts be moved rather than deleted.

Thank you for your kind words.

I truly am not familiar with the technical intricacies of the website, but I think that posts cannot be moved. I know that threads can be moved from one sub-forum to another sub-forum.

If members want to take this streaming discussion to a new thread, it probably would be best if they copied their posts on this thread and pasted them to the new thread.

 

[dminches]

Unless Ron specifically requests it we will leave the streaming discussion tangent in the thread but any future posts that address that, unless teed up by Ron, will be deleted.

This is Ron's system thread and he can dictate what's on topic and what's not.

 

[ddk]

I understand your position. BTW, what kids listen to on their devices are MP3 files as you know, and is the 2nd reason (behind dopamine addiction) that iphones will be the demise of that entire generation.

It's not only about the sound Marty, there's a physical reaction for me. I actually think that streaming is a marvelous invention and has many benefits just not for me in this context, don't understand why that offends people and make it personal.

david

 

[KeithR]

Totally correct that Magnepans need a lot of current to get kicked to life. That is why the 750 watt ARCs and VTLs are so commonly used on them.

But 330 watts (in triode mode) has always been, in my personal experience, from ARC, from Aesthetix and from VTL, enough current and oomph to kick Magnepans to life for solo vocals and “simple” music.

On a pair of 3.7s on Mac 601s at Shelly’s I noticed the meters pretty much at a constant 60 watts. Surprised me.

 

[microstrip]

My perspective...it's Ron's thread and Ron's site (along with Steve), and it's privately owned, so he and Steve can do whatever they like. Bottom line.

Not so easy IMHO. We have a TOS and forums are subject to general laws, such as copyright.

Ron has always been polite, gracious and accepting as far as I can tell, and he did recommend continuing the digital discussion in another thread when he wrote, "Feel free to start a new thread on this topic."

So, there appears to be opportunity for those posts be moved rather than deleted.

I fully agree with this point - I only disagreed with the deletion of the posts. But usually these topics die naturally after a few posts that add some value to the subject.

As soon as Ron unpacks the speakers we will have a lot to read and post.

 

[Gjo]

Not so easy IMHO. We have a TOS and forums are subject to general laws, such as copyright.

From the Terms and Rules:
We may remove or modify any Content submitted at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice.

 

[cjfrbw]

Tape: Havana Cigar. Vinyl: Havana cigarillo. Everything Else: much more satisfying than it used to be.
I think the streamer stuff is over-nerding the situation and is a long, expensive run for a short, planned obsolescent slide, but whatever, if it keeps the audiophiles humming and sparking, what harm can it do?

 

[barbz127]

Hi Ron,
Having owned the Baltic 3 for some time do you have any initial thoughts on how the upgrade to the Baltic 4 (and the new engine) has changed the dac's sonics?
Thankyou

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,
Having owned the Baltic 3 for some time do you have any initial thoughts on how the upgrade to the Baltic 4 (and the new engine) has changed the dac's sonics?
Thankyou

I never owned a Baltic 3. Fred Ainsley, of Lampizator North America, would be a good person to ask about the specific sonic differences between the Baltic 3 and the Baltic 4.

You’re welcome to come over and listen to it!

 

[Kingsrule]

Unless Ron specifically requests it we will leave the streaming discussion tangent in the thread but any future posts that address that, unless teed up by Ron, will be deleted.

This is Ron's system thread and he can dictate what's on topic and what's not.

This is BS......

 

[Ron Resnick]

What was the damping factor you were using? The Siegfried has four levels of feedback, and I found that in my system the preferred mode was different for tetrode or triode.

I used, and I am using, the lowest damping factor. With no dynamic cones to control, why would I use anything but the lowest damping factor?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Crickey!
I was trying to respond to Ron's experience with the Maggie's... and suddenly came across the cross-fire X sword fighting on streaming & digital . Oh well, I guess that's human nature... Different folks, different strokes. Digital is definitely going great places and so is every format or improvisation of it, there's no denying it. Certainly would be interesting to see what the future holds. Funny thing is, sometimes I feel that when you buy a particular digital product, it's pretty much out dated when you get home and set it all up! So I don't really bother with the latest & greatest anymore.

Just enjoying the fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[bonzo75]

Main motivation to get my own system is to have a thread where I can chop and delete people’s posts

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Now, getting back to this thread...

That's very correct Ron. The Maggie's do require a heck of a lot of power. However, you can't over-drive Maggie's. The ribbon tweeters have limits and sometimes the tweeter fuses don't react fast enough before blowing a ribbon tweeter.

This was the case with my MG20's, when I drove them with the VTL Wotans at one point. During that time, my CJ preamp went overseas to Spore for a fix up. The polypropylene caps started failing one by one... so it had to go. In the meantime I used CJ's DV2B digital player as a preamp. This particular vacuum tube player had a built-in ladder controlled volume level, such that it could control power amplifiers direct without a linestsge or dedicated preamp. At the time, CJ recommended it, saying it would be even less coloured due to the absence of the preamp. However, word of caution; whenever the DV2B is switched off and powered up again, the volume setting doesn't go down, rather by default it goes all the way up!!! So before playing tunes, you have to make sure that it's lowered before powering up the power amplifiers.

So one sunny arvo on a Sunday, I happened to switch it on and powered up the Wotans, forgetting about the DV2B's default settings... popped in a CD of Bob James Fourplay- Between the Sheets, and the first track on that CD comes thundering through with kettle drum whacks from the get go... so the Wotans blew away those Ribbon tweeters like it was the 4th of July Canon fire! Awesome!

With all the Maggie's I've owned to date, which was last in 2010/12... thereabouts, I've replaced 16 ribbon tweeters over various models (MGIIIa, MG3.3, 3.5, 3.6, 3 7, 20 & 20.1). It's not an easy task, especially when you have to be totally sober with a huge stiff neck... delicately pulling the highly fragile ribbon element across a zigzag manner and pasting with a tiny drop of special glue from side to side and downwards... the entire length of the tweeter. This is where the stiff neck happens. Magnepan used to include the ribbon tweeter kit to dealers back then, so when I ran the dealership, I had access to ribbon tweeters. However, now you have to purchase the ribbon tweeter kit separately or you can dismantle the ribbon element, place it in a special cylinder that Magnepan provides and ship it to them for repair. Customer has to pay costs both ways.

Maggie's do like high power but that high power also comes with using large SS gear or high powered tube amps. The bigger the amp, the larger the power supplies, the larger the current capacity and higher voltages. Thus, these voltages must be highly stable across the power supplies, and same parameters within highly stable configs are also excellent in driving stats.
This is what I learned back then. So now, my local CJ tech in Melb, who also does extensive work on ARC & VTL gear, can always identify a decent tube amp design from an exceptional one! His go to tube amps have always been either ARC, CJ or VTL, proudly claims their power supplies are rock solid! I can definitely concur, since I've seen them for myself opened up on his work bench, and every component is quite heavy as well. Solid stuff!

Based on your other question Ron, about whether the Pendragon's can reproduce the piano similar to the Maggie's... something along those lines... I hope I got it right?
As far as I've auditioned, I would definitely say yes! The last time I auditioned the Pendragon system was mighty fine! Driven by the same Dag- Relentless monoblocks that my mate formerly used on his Maggie's 30.7's. Both these systems sounded huge! I really couldn't prefer one over the other, although I felt that the Pendragon's were more coherent... such that it seemed as a better balance between bass tower & panels.

*forget to mention * the other amplifiers he also drove the Maggie's 30.7's with were the CJ ART300's, and they sounded superb! Real vfm!
A big WOOF on that one!

Whereas with the Maggie's 30.7's, no matter what you do, try or tweak, the various options in setting up this multi-panel system is mind boggling! It's no easy task. So I felt that it still had much more to improve upon in terms of optimal placement. Just my 50cts worth.

Cheers, RJ

 

[rando]

@Ron Resnick

In general how is your progress level ramping up towards inevitable completion?

A few items come to mind. Potential for interference coming from your remote controlled room lighting and kitchen appliances. Outwardly attractive while being inwardly effective - poolside window treatments. Most importantly, your sense of rightness with multiple people in the room and music playing. In actuality how your plans are standing up to reality or the onrushing critical examinations of short term visitors to your soft opening.

Timeline on equipment coming together is getting pretty narrow here.

 

[spiritofmusic]

@Ron Resnick

In general how is your progress level ramping up towards inevitable completion?

A few items come to mind. Potential for interference coming from your remote controlled room lighting and kitchen appliances. Outwardly attractive while being inwardly effective - poolside window treatments. Most importantly, your sense of rightness with multiple people in the room and music playing. In actuality how your plans are standing up to reality or the onrushing critical examinations of short term visitors to your soft opening.

Timeline on equipment coming together is getting pretty narrow here.

No pressure, then?

 

[cjfrbw]

75 inch BG type ribbons have a total of 144 sq inches of radiating area, which is about the same as a 13 inch cone driver (in that cone drivers are circular and the radiating diaphragms are about an inch less than the nominal size). To date, crossed over at 300 Hz, I have never seen them move. They don't have to go far to create appreciable sound levels as dipoles.

They are like big fuses, however, and the BG types that you see blown for sale occasionally look like the aluminum traces were blown off. I don't think I would use really high power amps with them, but whatever.

 

[rando]

No pressure, then?

None in directions he didn't personally state as elements he considers relevant to claiming his newly remodeled listening room is finished.

You appear to be suggesting this line of interest was out of sync with the ongoing situation*. Which I took to be a few weeks of trial and error over the holidays in a low key bid to assess a plan of attack going beyond theory and incomplete measurements.



* On topic and unregulated subject matter.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Now, getting back to this thread...

That's very correct Ron. The Maggie's do require a heck of a lot of power. However, you can't over-drive Maggie's. The ribbon tweeters have limits and sometimes the tweeter fuses don't react fast enough before blowing a ribbon tweeter.

This was the case with my MG20's, when I drove them with the VTL Wotans at one point. During that time, my CJ preamp went overseas to Spore for a fix up. The polypropylene caps started failing one by one... so it had to go. In the meantime I used CJ's DV2B digital player as a preamp. This particular vacuum tube player had a built-in ladder controlled volume level, such that it could control power amplifiers direct without a linestsge or dedicated preamp. At the time, CJ recommended it, saying it would be even less coloured due to the absence of the preamp. However, word of caution; whenever the DV2B is switched off and powered up again, the volume setting doesn't go down, rather by default it goes all the way up!!! So before playing tunes, you have to make sure that it's lowered before powering up the power amplifiers.

So one sunny arvo on a Sunday, I happened to switch it on and powered up the Wotans, forgetting about the DV2B's default settings... popped in a CD of Bob James Fourplay- Between the Sheets, and the first track on that CD comes thundering through with kettle drum whacks from the get go... so the Wotans blew away those Ribbon tweeters like it was the 4th of July Canon fire! Awesome!

With all the Maggie's I've owned to date, which was last in 2010/12... thereabouts, I've replaced 16 ribbon tweeters over various models (MGIIIa, MG3.3, 3.5, 3.6, 3 7, 20 & 20.1). It's not an easy task, especially when you have to be totally sober with a huge stiff neck... delicately pulling the highly fragile ribbon element across a zigzag manner and pasting with a tiny drop of special glue from side to side and downwards... the entire length of the tweeter. This is where the stiff neck happens. Magnepan used to include the ribbon tweeter kit to dealers back then, so when I ran the dealership, I had access to ribbon tweeters. However, now you have to purchase the ribbon tweeter kit separately or you can dismantle the ribbon element, place it in a special cylinder that Magnepan provides and ship it to them for repair. Customer has to pay costs both ways.

Maggie's do like high power but that high power also comes with using large SS gear or high powered tube amps. The bigger the amp, the larger the power supplies, the larger the current capacity and higher voltages. Thus, these voltages must be highly stable across the power supplies, and same parameters within highly stable configs are also excellent in driving stats.
This is what I learned back then. So now, my local CJ tech in Melb, who also does extensive work on ARC & VTL gear, can always identify a decent tube amp design from an exceptional one! His go to tube amps have always been either ARC, CJ or VTL, proudly claims their power supplies are rock solid! I can definitely concur, since I've seen them for myself opened up on his work bench, and every component is quite heavy as well. Solid stuff!

Based on your other question Ron, about whether the Pendragon's can reproduce the piano similar to the Maggie's... something along those lines... I hope I got it right?
As far as I've auditioned, I would definitely say yes! The last time I auditioned the Pendragon system was mighty fine! Driven by the same Dag- Relentless monoblocks that my mate formerly used on his Maggie's 30.7's. Both these systems sounded huge! I really couldn't prefer one over the other, although I felt that the Pendragon's were more coherent... such that it seemed as a better balance between bass tower & panels.

*forget to mention * the other amplifiers he also drove the Maggie's 30.7's with were the CJ ART300's, and they sounded superb! Real vfm!
A big WOOF on that one!

Whereas with the Maggie's 30.7's, no matter what you do, try or tweak, the various options in setting up this multi-panel system is mind boggling! It's no easy task. So I felt that it still had much more to improve upon in terms of optimal placement. Just my 50cts worth.

Cheers, RJ

Thanks for chronicling your Magnepan history! Sorry about the Wotans episode, but you told it in a funny way!

 

[Ron Resnick]

@Ron Resnick

In general how is your progress level ramping up towards inevitable completion?

A few items come to mind. Potential for interference coming from your remote controlled room lighting and kitchen appliances. Outwardly attractive while being inwardly effective - poolside window treatments. Most importantly, your sense of rightness with multiple people in the room and music playing. In actuality how your plans are standing up to reality or the onrushing critical examinations of short term visitors to your soft opening.

Timeline on equipment coming together is getting pretty narrow here.

Having the temporary Magnepan system has been great, not only because I can listen to music, but also because it gives me a bit of experience with the room. The Magnepan system has been making surprisingly significant jumps in sound quality, and especially so after implementing Don‘s suggestions. Most importantly I think the room “sounds” good.

The Lampizator Baltic 4 is as good as hoped for. My analog-oriented friends and I have been enjoying listening to music!

The timeline on equipment coming together is subject to change. I am still thinking February or March.

Today the installation of the record/tape storage cabinet was completed.