Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

In fact, I never owned a speaker that I could prefer with the Siegfried II in triode mode.

Tonight Don and I did a direct and careful comparison between triode mode and tetrode mode with Bill Henderson’s “Send in the Clowns.”

I did not hear any difference between the modes. Don felt that tetrode mode offered a bigger (and better) presentation. He did not feel that triode mode was more delicate or more nuanced in anyway.

This is a track which should favor triode mode, I would have thought? I am puzzled about this.

Maybe the presumed delicacy and nuance advantages of triode mode will be more apparent on analog?

 

[marty]

It’s not for lack of knowledge or exposure that I don’t care for streaming Will, I just think it’s crap.

David, that's quite a statement, even from somebody as unopinionated and low key such as you!

Seriously, there are many audiophiles on this forum who have invested the time, money and energy to reproduce music at home with outstanding analog as well as digital rigs. Many if not most would say that depending on the gear they own, digital's performance has improved considerably in the past few years compared to the finest analog gear. So much so in fact that, not surprisingly, they find that although SOA analog may sound a tad better, comments are often made such as 'gap is narrow and getting narrower", "the differences are very small", "the format is now irrelevant because the differences are small" and a host of other comments which speak to the attainment of excellence of the digital format that was not possible only a few years ago. The word "crap" does not seem to be a commonly used descriptor in characterizing their streaming experience through the very best equipment.

That's obviously a very different opinion than yours where you unabashedly state streaming is "crap". So it begs the question, have you had a state of the art server/streaming source in your home to compare to the finest analog systems you own? I have to wonder if that might change your mind to the point that you might moderate your characterization that streaming is "crap". As I recall from my last visit to your home a few years ago, you had an inexpensive CD player, but no streaming players or SOA DACs that I recall.

I just wonder whether if you had a SOA digital rig at home, what insights you might come away with and whether your description that streaming is "crap", might be modified to a any considerable degree? If streaming really is "crap" as you say, one might think others with formidable analog and digital systems would be in agrement with you, but that does not appear to be the case when they describe the SQ they are getting with SOA digital playback. Or are they just not honest about what they are hearing? Hmmm....

 

[bonzo75]

David, that's quite a statement, even from somebody as unopinionated and low key such as you!

David as in DDK, not David as in dminches.

If you read the book, David Webb was meant to look low key to mix with normal people as Jason Bourne without standing out in any way, but such a low key David only exists in good fiction.

 

[ddk]

David, that's quite a statement, even from somebody as unopinionated and low key such as you!

Seriously, there are many audiophiles on this forum who have invested the time, money and energy to reproduce music at home with outstanding analog as well as digital rigs. Many if not most would say that depending on the gear they own, digital's performance has improved considerably in the past few years compared to the finest analog gear. So much so in fact that, not surprisingly, they find that although SOA analog may sound a tad better, comments are often made such as 'gap is narrow and getting narrower", "the differences are very small", "the format is now irrelevant because the differences are small" and a host of other comments which speak to the attainment of excellence of the digital format that was not possible only a few years ago. The word "crap" does not seem to be a commonly used descriptor in characterizing their streaming experience through the very best equipment.

That's obviously a very different opinion than yours where you unabashedly state streaming is "crap". So it begs the question, have you had a state of the art server/streaming source in your home to compare to the finest analog systems you own? I have to wonder if that might change your mind to the point that you might moderate your characterization that streaming is "crap". As I recall from my last visit to your home a few years ago, you had an inexpensive CD player, but no streaming players or SOA DACs that I recall.

I just wonder whether if you had a SOA digital rig at home, what insights you might come away with and whether your description that streaming is "crap", might be modified to a any considerable degree? If streaming really is "crap" as you say, one might think others with formidable analog and digital systems would be in agrement with you, but that does not appear to be the case when they describe the SQ they are getting with SOA digital playback. Or are they just not honest about what they are hearing? Hmmm....

Hi Marty,
Obviously there are many who disagree with me and enjoy streaming but that doesn’t change what I hear nor stop me from getting nauseous after 10 minutes. Strangely I’m forced to listen to the latest and greatest when visiting people who have them, including friends who know me well. If you recall I could only stand so much of the iPad when visiting you and we had to switch over to analog. I’m not alone feeling this way there are many who don’t like any form of digital, why does it matter to anyone?

I’m not a masochist Marty if I can’t stand a well sorted out SOTA streaming setup by someone who loves it how I can I live with at home? My wife and kids torture me enough with their streamers and I can nearly barely handle that. I remember similar conversations about DSP and digital crossovers when we first met.

CEC TL0 and Weiss is what you saw here, they’re still digital SOA enough for me even if they’re inexpensive as you put it. I guess compared to some new digital gear they are. I even like them more than most analog setups I hear.

david

 

[ddk]

Tonight Don and I did a direct and careful comparison between triode mode and tetrode mode with Bill Henderson’s “Send in the Clowns.”

I did not hear any difference between the modes. Don felt that tetrode mode offered a bigger (and better) presentation. He did not feel that triode mode was more delicate or more nuanced in anyway.

This is a track which should favor triode mode, I would have thought? I am puzzled about this.

Maybe the presumed delicacy and nuance advantages of triode mode will be more apparent on analog?

I think this has more to do with the speakers than analog vs digital, Maggies like current and need a bit of amplifier oomph to come to life.

david

 

[Willgolf]

At the end of the day, to each his own. Enjoy the music!



to

 

[wil]

I think you're trying to insinuate that anyone on the Taiko forum must be drunk on Taiko koolaid and so disqualified from objective thought? While there is plenty of disturbing group-think on audio forums, I think the experience/knowledge evident on that thread rises above.

But there's no denying one's personal experience. I just try to keep in mind the potential difference between what I think I know and what I might not know.

I also despise bad digital. From my experience it’s usually the result of bad recordings/mastering. Fortunately, there are many thousands of good to great recordings out there.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think this has more to do with the speakers than analog vs digital, Maggies like current and need a bit of amplifier oomph to come to life.

david

Totally correct that Magnepans need a lot of current to get kicked to life. That is why the 750 watt ARCs and VTLs are so commonly used on them.

But 330 watts (in triode mode) has always been, in my personal experience, from ARC, from Aesthetix and from VTL, enough current and oomph to kick Magnepans to life for solo vocals and “simple” music.

 

[KeithR]

I think you're trying to insinuate that anyone on the Taiko forum must be drunk on Taiko koolaid and so disqualified from objective thought? While there is plenty of disturbing group-think on audio forums, I think the experience/knowledge evident on that thread rises above.

But there's no denying one's personal experience. I just try to keep in mind the potential difference between what I think I know and what I might not know.

I also despise bad digital. From my experience it’s usually the result of bad recordings/mastering. Fortunately, there are many thousands of good to great recordings out there.

you hadn't heard that everything sucks on this forum?

digital sucks
streaming sucks
direct drive sucks
headphones suck
non $5 cables suck
thick vinyl sucks
remasters suck
modern music sucks
modern speakers suck
non-horns suck
room treatment sucks
non-SET amps suck
real microphones for recording suck

basically there is a whole lot of suckage here at WBF.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Can y’all please take this streaming debate off of my member system thread? Feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

I’m going to ask the moderators to delete this streaming fencing match from my system thread.

Thank you.

 

[ddk]

I think you're trying to insinuate that anyone on the Taiko forum must be drunk on Taiko koolaid and so disqualified from objective thought? While there is plenty of disturbing group-think on audio forums, I think the experience/knowledge evident on that thread rises above.

I don’t understand why you insist on turning the conversation into a personal matter when it never was! You should know by now that I rarely insinuate anything if I want to say something I’ll say it straight out. I will always respond in kind and according to the tone of the exchanging party/parties. To put your mind at ease, I have no thoughts about that thread, the participants or the products discussed! It’s not my business and unlike our sour friend @KeithR I don’t care what people like or dislike specially when it doesn’t involve me.

But there's no denying one's personal experience. I just try to keep in mind the potential difference between what I think I know and what I might not know.

I don’t disagree experience matters but also understanding the other person. In this case you seem to believe that my problem is exposure without ever trying to find out my issue. A bit like going to a dinner party and you tell them you don’t like cooked fish and some guy turns around and says that’s because you haven’t tried my wives!

I also despise bad digital. From my experience it’s usually the result of bad recordings/mastering. Fortunately, there are many thousands of good to great recordings out there.

This is Ron’s system thread we’ve derailed it enough.

Sorry Ron, you beat me to it.

david

 

[bonzo75]

It’s Karma that Ron’s system thread got derailed by digital

 

[marty]

Hi Marty,
Obviously there are many who disagree with me and enjoy streaming but that doesn’t change what I hear nor stop me from getting nauseous after 10 minutes. Strangely I’m forced to listen to the latest and greatest when visiting people who have them, including friends who know me well. If you recall I could only stand so much of the iPad when visiting you and we had to switch over to analog. I’m not alone feeling this way there are many who don’t like any form of digital, why does it matter to anyone?

I’m not a masochist Marty if I can’t stand a well sorted out SOTA streaming setup by someone who loves it how I can I live with at home? My wife and kids torture me enough with their streamers and I can nearly barely handle that. I remember similar conversations about DSP and digital crossovers when we first met.

CEC TL0 and Weiss is what you saw here, they’re still digital SOA enough for me even if they’re inexpensive as you put it. I guess compared to some new digital gear they are. I even like them more than most analog setups I hear.

david

I understand your position. BTW, what kids listen to on their devices are MP3 files as you know, and is the 2nd reason (behind dopamine addiction) that iphones will be the demise of that entire generation.

 

[microstrip]

Tonight Don and I did a direct and careful comparison between triode mode and tetrode mode with Bill Henderson’s “Send in the Clowns.”

I did not hear any difference between the modes. Don felt that tetrode mode offered a bigger (and better) presentation. He did not feel that triode mode was more delicate or more nuanced in anyway.

This is a track which should favor triode mode, I would have thought? I am puzzled about this.

Maybe the presumed delicacy and nuance advantages of triode mode will be more apparent on analog?

What was the damping factor you were using? The Siegfried has four levels of feedback, and I found that in my system the preferred mode was different for tetrode or triode.

Technically the Magneplanars are mostly a resistive speaker with a simple crossover, without mechanically induced impedance variations with frequency. Considering the Stereophile measurements I do not expect a large variation of sound quality in well behaved speakers - the Siegfried has similar excellent measurements in both modes for those impedances.

 

[microstrip]

Can y’all please take this streaming debate off of my member system thread? Feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

I’m going to ask the moderators to delete this streaming fencing match from my system thread.

Thank you.

Ron,

Although I understand your desire to stop this subject discussion in this forum, I think that asking moderators to delete the posts of members is extremely violent and almost a kind of censorship.

People contributed with posts that took time and effort, expressing their ideas. In fact, you officially opened the door to digital in post #97. Just MHO, YMMV.

 

[wil]

Can y’all please take this streaming debate off of my member system thread? Feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

I’m going to ask the moderators to delete this streaming fencing match from my system thread.

Thank you.

Thanks Ron -- you could move it to one the other "digital is not high-end" threads started by (un-named).

 

[Gjo]

Ron,

Although I understand your desire to stop this subject discussion in this forum, I think that asking moderators to delete the posts of members is extremely violent and almost a kind of censorship.

People contributed with posts that took time and effort, expressing their ideas. In fact, you officially opened the door to digital in post #97. Just MHO, YMMV.

My perspective...it's Ron's thread and Ron's site (along with Steve), and it's privately owned, so he and Steve can do whatever they like. Bottom line.

Ron has always been polite, gracious and accepting as far as I can tell, and he did recommend continuing the digital discussion in another thread when he wrote, "Feel free to start a new thread on this topic."

So, there appears to be opportunity for those posts be moved rather than deleted.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

Although I understand your desire to stop this subject discussion in this forum, I think that asking moderators to delete the posts of members is extremely violent and almost a kind of censorship.

People contributed with posts that took time and effort, expressing their ideas. In fact, you officially opened the door to digital in post #97. Just MHO, YMMV.

This is fair enough. But I believe the moderators have always had kind of a special rule for member system threads which gives the member some discretion to ask that extraneous stuff to be deleted.

 

[microstrip]

This is fair enough. But I believe the moderators have always had kind of a special rule for member system threads which gives the member some discretion to ask that extraneous stuff to be deleted.

I would consider a streaming debate as an extraneous stuff in Peter system, for example, but surely not in yours or Steve systems. BTW, I consider extraneous mostly means irrelevant or unrelated, not simply unwanted.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would consider a streaming debate as an extraneous stuff in Peter system, for example, but surely not in yours or Steve systems. BTW, I consider extraneous mostly means irrelevant or unrelated, not simply unwanted.

Thank you for your opinion on the matter, but I do not consider a streaming fencing match between Marty and David about their personal, subjective views on streaming to be relevant or related to my thread.