Ron's Favorite Private Rooms + Systems of All Time

[tima]

In my experience there is a very loose and tenuous correlation between one’s room width and the sound stage width presented by a system in that room.

I'm inclined to agree. Soundstage width is in our head and measurement - if you can call it that -- is subjective. Room width correlation is tenuous. My current room is 16ft wide and in my previous (larger) house my audio room was 26ft wide. Since it is a psycho-acoustic phenomenon it's not unusual for me to hear a soundstage extend beyond physical walls. I believe there is better correlation with other factors such as: the recording, the components.and the distance between speakers (rather than the distance betwen speakers and walls).

 

[tima]

What Ron is doing supports all of that. Including the show reports and interviews and YouTube presence. It is growing the WBF brand and supporting the main stream audio industry.

I consider those efforts primarily aimed at attracting advertisers and dealers.

 

[tima]

yes, but then favorite for whom if not Ron, who was the poster of said "favorites"? How can they be WBF favorites when most members haven't heard most of the other WBF members systems? IMO, then it HAS to be Ron's personal favorites of private rooms he has heard or they are NO ONE's favorites.

Yes, of course. That anyone believes he can identify favorite rooms for other's taste is vanity. Waffling between "my favorite rooms" and "top rooms for most tastes" (made apart from personal preference) reflects a slipperiness that, as you noted, is 'very strange.' Perhaps trying to intimate these are 'personal objective choices'.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ok, kind of like XVX, M9, the top YG, Cessaro Zeta, trios, are top speakers.

or dCS Apex, Wadax, MSB Select II, Horizon, Total dac's top model, are all top dacs

Mayer, Dagostino, Wavac, Boulder, are all top amps

And so on...

Nope. I thought you understood.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That anyone believes he can identify favorite rooms for other's taste is vanity.

Nope. It is based on my experience visiting some of the top audio rooms plus systems across the world, and based on experiencing audio systems together with audiophiles and with reviewers at shows and at dealers and at friends' homes.

 

[Chop]

Chill out!
Rons thread, Ron's opinions on Ron's favourite rooms and systems based on what Ron has heard. End of.
Why all the debate? Rather than a consensus view isn't anyone entitled to an opinion anymore ?

 

[adyc]

Chill out!
Rons thread, Ron's opinions on Ron's favourite rooms and systems based on what Ron has heard. End of.
Why all the debate? Rather than a consensus view isn't anyone entitled to an opinion anymore ?

You should know by now the guys in here like to argue and like to question.

 

[Al M.]

Chill out!
Rons thread, Ron's opinions on Ron's favourite rooms and systems based on what Ron has heard. End of.
Why all the debate? Rather than a consensus view isn't anyone entitled to an opinion anymore ?

That's the point. If it would be just Ron's opinions on Ron's favorite rooms, there would be no objections. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as you say.

The objections arose from extending the term "favorite" to something not applicable, as discussed.

 

[morricab]

Nope. It is based on my experience visiting some of the top audio rooms plus systems across the world, and based on experiencing audio systems together with audiophiles and with reviewers at shows and at dealers and at friends' homes.

Top Audio rooms? Based on...? Price? Because you think so? Because they claim so? Because you were told so? You are still trying to speak for others when it was supposed to be your favorites...

Suffice to say at this point, basically no one knows exactly what you are trying to demonstrate with this list.

 

[PeterA]

Kedar, Brad,

This is a bit hard to explain, but I am not making this list up based 100% purely on my personal preferences. Rather this is a combination of my personal preferences and what I think most audiophiles of differing preferences and interests would consider among the best rooms + systems.

It doesn't make sense to me to downgrade rooms plus systems with non-planar dipole loudspeakers as a matter of policy just because I have a subjective personal preference for planar dipole loudspeakers.

Similarly, just because I personally preferred Mike's system with VAC, I am not going to remove his system from the list because he is almost all solid-state.

Similarly, just because I personally would like to hear Todd's system filled with tubes, I am not going to downgrade it because I suspect very strongly that I would like the system even more with tubes.

Similarly, just because I personally would like to hear Todd's system with vinyl or tape, I am not going to downgrade it because I suspect very strongly that I would like the system even more with an analog source.

Ron, have you heard any systems anywhere with planer speakers that you think are as good as any of these six systems you list? If you have, I would imagine you would’ve included it in the list, but I am asking anyway out of curiosity. And if you have not, why do you think planar based top systems do not meet your criteria or what you imagine other audio files would like in this top tier of theoretical best systems? Asking it slightly differently, why do you think neither of your systems is in this top-tier based on both your personal opinion and what you imagine other audio files would consider to be their favorites?

Also, I’m trying to understand your qualifications and caveats about you inserting tubes or vinyl into some of the systems. Since we are now in the realm of the theoretical, if you were to personally optimize one of these six systems to what you imagine would be ideal for your preferences, what system would it be and would it rise above the other five or would you still rank them all in no particular order?

 

[PeterA]

Nope. It is based on my experience visiting some of the top audio rooms plus systems across the world, and based on experiencing audio systems together with audiophiles and with reviewers at shows and at dealers and at friends' homes.

Ron, to Brad‘s point, I’m trying to understand the purpose of the list. Is it your way of endorsing particular systems and brands, two of which happen to be dealerships?

What is your criteria for describing particular rooms and systems as “top across the world”?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is it your way of endorsing particular systems and brands, two of which happen to be dealerships?

Of course not. Why are you and Tim so often digging for some nefarious angle?

Dealership and particular brands have absolutely nothing to do with my thinking about the top hobbyist rooms + systems. In fact, rightly or wrongly, I think of dealership systems in stores or otherwise outside of a hobbyist audiophile's home as being disqualified from my list. Todd is not qualified because he loved the Trio G3 loudspeaker so much after a lifelong search for his ultimate loudspeaker that he decided to be a missionary for horn loudspeakers in general and for Avantgarde in particular, and to try to expose more people to the joy he is experiencing with this particular topology of loudspeaker and this particular brand of loudspeaker.

I planned my trip to visit Todd months ago -- long before he ever got involved in representing Avantgarde.

And who is the other dealer to whom you are referring? Jack? Jack was a hobbyist long before (decades, perhaps, before) he was a dealer. His room + system is in his home.

Why don't you ask Todd for an invitation to go hear his system for yourself, instead of suggesting conspiracy theories about my hobby visits to other audiophile hobbiests around the country and around the world to report on what I think may be rooms plus systems which are fascinating to other audiophiles?

 

[Kingrex]

It seems to me, members when discussing why they like a new componant or a system, in general look for similar attributes.

Low Distortion
Good dynamics
No grain or hash
No fatigue
Cant pinpoint the speaker
Wide and tall soundstage
Full frequency bass and treble extension.
A relatively flat frequenxy response.

These are some of the most obvous attributes we aspire towards. I did not say Natural or organic or close to the real event. Those are too nebulous a term.

If I were to listen to a system that excelled at these basic attributes and it sounded "musical" to me, I would assume most others would too. I would share with others it was a great system. A favorite of mine.

 

[Chop]

It seems to me, members when discussing why they like a new componant or a system, in general look for similar attributes.

Low Distortion
Good dynamics
No grain or hash
No fatigue
Cant pinpoint the speaker
Wide and tall soundstage
Full frequency bass and treble extension.
A relatively flat frequenxy response.

These are some of the most obvous attributes we aspire towards. I did not say Natural or organic or close to the real event. Those are too nebulous a term.

If I were to listen to a system that excelled at these basic attributes and it sounded "musical" to me, I would assume most others would too. I would share with others it was a great system. A favorite of mine.

That looks like an .... unarguably sensible list of desirable attributes

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, have you heard any systems anywhere with planer speakers that you think are as good as any of these six systems you list?

Your question -- which I agree is an interesting one -- is problematic according to my thinking about this list because you are focusing only on a type of speaker. My thinking with this list is very much an indivisible synergy of room + system. I very much am not thinking of loudspeakers by themselves or components by themselves in a vacuum separate and apart from the typically amazing rooms in the top tier of this list.

To answer your question I would need to hear Don's system or my Pendragon system in Jack's room or in Todd's room or in Mike's room. Even if my Pendragon system were in one of those three amazing and very large rooms the Pendragons would not make the cut without an additional elaborate subwoofer system, such as two Goebel Divin Sovereigns or Wilson Master Subsonics.

But I certainly think these are fascinating theoretical speculations!

 

[PeterA]

Of course not. Why are you and Tim so often digging for some nefarious angle?

not digging for a nefarious angle. Just asking questions and trying to understand better your two posts that started this current discussion.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I fully appreciate that my evaluation and assessment of rooms + systems in this particular thread is going to be difficult to understand and confusing, because there is no defined list of criteria, there is no specific formula.

At some point the resulting sound from a system could go so far off my personal subjective musicality spectrum that no matter how amazing the room and no matter how amazing the components it probably would not make my first tier. My best example of this might be YG XV driven by Boulder electronics and fronted by dCS. No disrespect to these brands as I may very well like them in other combinations, but the resulting sound from this particular combination might be so far from my personal, subjective sonic preferences that I suspect I would not be able put this particular combination of components in my top-tier no matter how amazing the room.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Ahhh the complexities of Audio “opinion “ treated as facts unless one disagrees..

Formidable list Ron ....


Regards

 

[bonzo75]

At some point the resulting sound from a system could go so far off my personal subjective musicality spectrum that no matter how amazing the room and no matter how amazing the components it probably would not make my first tier. My best example of this might be YG XV driven by Boulder electronics and fronted by dCS. No disrespect to these brands as I may very well like them in other combinations, but the resulting sound from this particular combination might be so far from my personal, subjective sonic preferences that I suspect I would not be able put this particular combination of components in my top-tier no matter how amazing the room.

looks like some high budget systems that were not your cup of tea

 

[brad225]

I think their point is, and I agree with their point, that if we have experience listening at close range to the sound of an unamplified piano being played we can develop a mental database reference of what a real piano sounds like. We cannot do that with multi-track pop or with a solo vocalist, unless we can listen at length to a solo vocalist singing to us unamplified.

It's a lot easier to find a piano in a friend's living room or hear unamplified piano at a concert hall, than it is to corral Stevie Nicks to sing to you unamplified in your living room.

Are you saying that, even though many of us have not heard as much live piano as some of you. None of the mentioned artists have anything that sounds like "real" recorded piano? Are some of you system playing classical music able to be mistaken for live music?

Not trying to start another argument I've never heard a system that would be mistaken for live. Not that they can't exist.