Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Ron Resnick]

Plywood has higher absorption than sheetrock or hardwood, but we should remember that Ron speakers are dipoles with 100% back radiation. When using the Soundlab's I have to partially absorb the back radiation, but for the XLF's I need a more reflective front wall. I also prefer livelier rooms - IMHO most listening rooms are too absorptive.

Bonnie likes plywood precisely because it has higher absorption than drywall, which actually is quite reflective. I wrote Bonnie today that I am open to her programming in hardwood walnut (which would match the speaker/amplifier wood floor section of the listening room anyway).

I do not want to debate here absorbing versus diffusing the back wave of dipoles. (We have discussed that elsewhere.) I believe in doing neither, so my front wall will be 5/8" drywall over 2" of firred-out wood framing filled with blue jeans insulation.) I try to encourage an unadulterated back wave reflection off the front wall.

I think people often over-damp their rooms too, but I always really like how a quiet room "sounds."

 

[Ron Resnick]

After my experience at Mike’s I have come to be skeptical as to whether the 130w 833 SET amplifier will be able to function for me as a general purpose amplifier for all types of music. I think that amplifier would be able to function only in the role for which the ML3s function for Mike.

I think I have now come full circle — I am back to seriously considering only high-power, push-pull tube amplifiers:

— ARC 750SE
— VAC Statement 450 (or iQ)
— VTL Siegfried II

 

[Ron Resnick]

After my experience at Mike’s I have come to be skeptical as to whether the 130w 833 SET amplifier will be able to function for me as a general purpose amplifier for all types of music. I think that amplifier would be able to function for me only in the role for which the ML3s function for Mike.

I think I have now come full circle — I am back to seriously considering only high-power, push-pull tube amplifiers:

— ARC 750SE
— VAC Statement 450 (or iQ)
— VTL Siegfried II

I think the Siegfried IIs in triode mode (330w) with the lowest negative feedback setting would be great.

 

[Lagonda]

I don’t understand your fixation with tubes, you just heard a system where the solid state amplifiers bested the tube setup.
Your speakers have a lot in common with Mikes, why not try good SS before you make up your mind ?
The relative high crossover point between your main towers and the bass towers (using SS amps) in the Gryphons might give a better synergy. I can hear a distinct difference when using different SS amps on my sub towers, and my crossover point is 100HZ. The difference will likely be bigger with tubes. You will probably get all the tube goodies you need from your preamp!

 

[Folsom]

Lagonda, that makes it hard to believe you've heard very many tubes... I think when people like tubes the reasons can be pretty clear! Especially anyone considering Triodes.

 

[bonzo75]

Baby steps. Now he is off SETs into higher powered push pulls. SS next

 

[Lagonda]

Lagonda, that makes it hard to believe you've heard very many tubes... I think when people like tubes the reasons can be pretty clear! Especially anyone considering Triodes.

I like tubes too, but good SS are the right choice in some systems, this might be one of these systems. Just try it before making a choice. Your not joining a cult, just trying out amplifiers !

 

[PeterA]

Ron, what amplifiers does the designer of your Pendragons prefer and what amps did you hear when you auditioned the speakers and concluded they were right for you? I presume you discussed with him general issues like room dimensions, type of music, volume preference and amp choices.

 

[bonzo75]

Gryphon, obviously

 

[PeterA]

Gryphon, obviously

Thank you very much Kedar. Then the question becomes, why Ron is not considering Gryphon amps.

 

[bonzo75]

Thank you very much Kedar. Then the question becomes, why Ron is not considering Gryphon amps.

Because they are not tubes

 

[Ron Resnick]

I don’t understand your fixation with tubes, you just heard a system where the solid state amplifiers bested the tube setup.
Your speakers have a lot in common with Mikes, why not try good SS before you make up your mind ?
The relative high crossover point between your main towers and the bass towers (using SS amps) in the Gryphons might give a better synergy. I can hear a distinct difference when using different SS amps on my sub towers, and my crossover point is 100HZ. The difference will likely be bigger with tubes. You will probably get all the tube goodies you need from your preamp!

Thank you for trying to point me in a different direction.

Out of Mike's three amplifiers . . .

If I could choose only one, I would choose the VACs.

If I could choose two I would choose the Lamms and the VACs, but the VACs versus the darTZeels is a much, much closer and tougher, and a more thought-provoking and soul-searching dilemma, than I ever would have anticipated.

And before I considered seriously Vitus (Kedar) or darTZeel (Mike, Keith) there is a whole pond of hybrids (Lamm, Ypsilon, Aesthetix and KR) to wade through.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Baby steps. Now he is off SETs into higher powered push pulls. SS next

Hahaha!

So, Kedar, which hybrid do you think gets you the closest to what you and I now know personally and empirically the darTZeel 458 can achieve?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Today I officially ordered and paid for an Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume controls and two power supplies, and an Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with two power supplies.

The ZYX UNIverse Premium is paid for and in my possession.

Herzan + Taiko Tana is ordered and paid for.

I also have arranged to purchase a second Studer A820.

I am now planning to order VTL Siegfried IIs. I have come full-circle and I will return to 330w in triode mode on Pendragon ribbon panels. I have put my current VTL MB-750s up for sale. I would love to try the AM 833 SET but I now believe it is not enough power for general purpose use. (Keep in mind I am accustomed, for 18 years, to the dynamics and headroom of 350w in triode mode on 91dB sensitive Martin-Logan Prodigy speakers.)

When in the future ARC upgrades the 750SE to the circuit design of the new 160M with triode mode, then we will do a direct, apples-to-apples shoot-out of that future ARC versus the Siegfried IIs.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Today I officially ordered and paid for an Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume controls and two power supplies, and an Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with two power supplies.

The ZYX UNIverse Premium is paid for and in my possession.

Herzan + Taiko Tana is ordered and paid for.

I also have arranged to purchase a second Studer A820.

I am now planning to order VTL Siegfried IIs. I have come full-circle and now will return to 330w in triode mode on Pendragon ribbon panels. I have put my current VTL MB-750s up for sale.

When in the future ARC upgrades the 750SE to the circuit design of the new 160M with triode mode, then we will do a direct, apples-to-apples shoot-out of that future ARC versus the Siegfried IIs.

Ron,

congrats on these significant decisions. I know these were big things on your mind and hopefully you can get some peace of mind from having these parts settled.

I applaud the 2nd Studer A-820, the VTL Siegfried II's, the Taiko Tana, and Io Eclipse. great products all.

those VTL's should eliminate any concern for power with your Pendragon's.

cheers,

Mike

 

[ddk]

Today I officially ordered and paid for an Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume controls and two power supplies, and an Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with two power supplies.

The ZYX UNIverse Premium is paid for and in my possession.

Herzan + Taiko Tana is ordered and paid for.

I also have arranged to purchase a second Studer A820.

I am now planning to order VTL Siegfried IIs. I have come full-circle and I will return to 330w in triode mode on Pendragon ribbon panels. I have put my current VTL MB-750s up for sale. I would love to try the AM 833 SET but I now believe it is not enough power for general purpose use. (Keep in mind I am accustomed, for 18 years, to the dynamics and headroom of 350w in triode mode on 91dB sensitive Martin-Logan Prodigy speakers.)

When in the future ARC upgrades the 750SE to the circuit design of the new 160M with triode mode, then we will do a direct, apples-to-apples shoot-out of that future ARC versus the Siegfried IIs.

Move-in day must be getting close, congrats Ron!

david

 

[dan31]

Nice choices across the board. Glad to hear VTL will be your amplifier. I think it’s the best choice to match with the Aesthetix preamps’s.

 

[LL21]

Today I officially ordered and paid for an Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume controls and two power supplies, and an Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse with two power supplies.

The ZYX UNIverse Premium is paid for and in my possession.

Herzan + Taiko Tana is ordered and paid for.

I also have arranged to purchase a second Studer A820.

I am now planning to order VTL Siegfried IIs. I have come full-circle and I will return to 330w in triode mode on Pendragon ribbon panels. I have put my current VTL MB-750s up for sale. I would love to try the AM 833 SET but I now believe it is not enough power for general purpose use. (Keep in mind I am accustomed, for 18 years, to the dynamics and headroom of 350w in triode mode on 91dB sensitive Martin-Logan Prodigy speakers.)

When in the future ARC upgrades the 750SE to the circuit design of the new 160M with triode mode, then we will do a direct, apples-to-apples shoot-out of that future ARC versus the Siegfried IIs.

Fantastic system. Congrats on all the major decisions after extremely careful consideration and due diligence...and also on moving from decisions to execution mode. Very exciting.

 

[Pb Blimp]

Awesome Ron. I see no weakness. The kind of system that only comes from extreme knowledge and methodical due diligence.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I am now planning to order VTL Siegfried IIs. I have come full-circle and I will return to 330w in triode mode on Pendragon ribbon panels. (...)

Great amplifiers. There is a pair playing beautifully less than 2 miles from me! When do you expect to to move the complete system to your room?