Roon End-point for Soulution 760 DAC

[SwissTom]

I just ordered the Soulution 760 DAC and Soulution 711 amplifier.

My music server is Roon Rock installed on a dedicated NUC based server.

That server is located somewhere in my network away from the HiFi.

I'm looking for a Roon End Point (transport only) to connect to the 760, whether USB or AES.

Most of the offerings are servers, which I don't need.

There aren't many transports-only available.

The options could be :

• Sonore Signature Rendu Optical SE
• Lumin U1

Is there anything else available?

The other option would be to stick with the LAN adapter included in the Soulution 760 and use rooUPnP as a RAAT to UPnP converter.

Is something else available ?
What are you views?

Thank you for your help,

Tom

 

[bryans]

Could you move your Roon Rock to your rack? Might be worth a try to go USB from the Ron Rock to your DAC.

 

[SwissTom]

Could you move your Roon Rock to your rack? Might be worth a try to go USB from the Ron Rock to your DAC.

Note sure this is something to do.

The first rule of Roon is :
"You will not connect the Roon Core to your DAC "

--> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality#Overview

Roon is a power-hungry piece of software and needs a lot of computing, which means noise.

The Roon Core (server) should always be located away from your DAC, somewhere in the network.

Roon architecture is as follows :

Roon Core ----(LAN)---- Roon EndPoint ----(USB, AES, etc)---DAC

 

[bryans]

Note sure this is something to do.

The first rule of Roon is :
"You will not connect the Roon Core to your DAC "

--> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality#Overview

Roon is a power-hungry piece of software which a lot of computing. This means noise.

The Roon Core (server) should always be located away from your DAC, somewhere in the network.

Roon architecture is as follows :

Roon Core ----(LAN)---- Roon EndPoint ----(USB, AES, etc)---DAC

Yes this is a one way to connect. But I would suggest connecting your Roon Core via USB. This is something you can do and not spend any money. At worst you don't like it and you put your Roon Core back.

I currently run USB from my Roon Nucleus+ to my DAC with great results. I have tried a well known Roon Endpoint and yes it sounded different but I didn't think it was any better than going USB from my Nucleus+. Now this was a while ago so things might have changed.

At some point I will consider a music server/streamer. Most likely one that can run Roon Core and Endpoint all in one. Or some other music management software.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I just ordered the Soulution 760 DAC and Soulution 711 amplifier.

My music server is Roon Rock installed on a dedicated NUC based server.

That server is located somewhere in my network away from the HiFi.

I'm looking for a Roon End Point (transport only) to connect to the 760, whether USB or AES.

Most of the offerings are servers, which I don't need.

There aren't many transports-only available.

The options could be :

• Sonore Signature Rendu Optical SE
• Lumin U1

Is there anything else available?

The other option would be to stick with the LAN adapter included in the Soulution 760 and use rooUPnP as a RAAT to UPnP converter.

Is something else available ?
What are you views?

Thank you for your help,

Tom

respectfully; if you are playing at Soulution 760 and 711 levels (congrats btw, those are amazing!), why mess around? get a Taiko Extreme or other top level server; the Extreme comes with Roon loaded and will give you streaming and file performance worthy of your Soulution pieces. nuke your NUC. bits are not bits. getting those files from that remote server (i have two of those myself on my network and they are not directly involved with music playing, back up storage only) will add lots of noise.

just say'n.

 

[SwissTom]

respectfully; if you are playing at Soulution 760 and 711 levels (congrats btw, those are amazing!), why mess around? get a Taiko Extreme or other top level server; the Extreme comes with Roon loaded and will give you streaming and file performance worthy of your Soulution pieces. nuke your NUC. bits are not bits. getting those files from that remote server (i have two of those myself on my network and they are not directly involved with music playing, back up storage only) will add lots of noise.

just say'n.

Good evening Mike,

Thanks! I really look forward to installing them.

No, I'm not a "bits are bits" person

But I'm concerned about compromising the sound of the DAC.

The Taiko Extrem, Antipodes K50, etc., can run the Roon Core, which is convenient.

But this means they are computers capable of a lot of computing power. And Roon needs a lot of computing power. And that's noisy, really noisy.

Most of their cost is related to making them as quiet as possible.

In the context of Roon, the elegant solution would be a very well designed Roon Endpoint and a Roon Rock server somewhere on the network away from the hifi (NUC, or anything else, doesn't make a difference).

By very well designed, I mean a no-compromise design.

Doing just one thing : being the perfect Roon End Point.

Low power, low noise, capable of receiving and reclocking perfectly the data, buffering it, etc., etc. And then sending it to the DAC as "silently" as possible.

Interestingly there aren't high-quality Roon End Points.

I would fancy a Taiko, Antipodes, Soulution, etc. Roon End Point.

Currently only Sonore produces dedicated minimalistic streamers, like the Signature Rendu SE Optical.

The other elegant option would be to implement the RAAT protocol into the LAN adapter included in the 760.

EDIT : just to be clear, I abviously wasn't planning to connect the NUC/Roon Rock to the 760.

 

[abeidrov]

Good evening Mike,

Thanks! I really look forward to installing them.

No, I'm not a "bits are bits" person

But I'm concerned about compromising the sound of the DAC.

The Taiko Extrem, Antipodes K50, etc., can run the Roon Core, which is convenient.

But this means they are computers capable of a lot of computing power. And Roon needs a lot of computing power. And that's noisy, really noisy.

Most of their cost is related to making them as quiet as possible.

In the context of Roon, the elegant solution would be a Roon Rock (NUC, or anything else, doesn't make a difference) and a very well designed Roon End Point.

By very well designed, I mean a no-compromise design.

Doing just one thing : being the perfect Roon End Point.

Low power, low noise, capable of receiving and reclocking perfectly the data, buffering it, etc., etc. And then sending it to the DAC as "silently" as possible.

Interestingly there aren't high-quality Roon End Points.

I would fancy a Taiko, Antipodes, Soulution, etc. Roon End Point.

Currrently only Sonore produces dedicated minimalistic streamers, like the Signature Rendu SE Optical.

The other elegant option would be to implement the RAAT protocol into the LAN adapter included in the 760.

You can get Antipodes S30 and configure it as ‘player’. All Antipodes servers can be configured as servers or players or both. This is easily done from a server online dashboard. You can then add S60 as an external power supply and S20 Reclocker if you need other outputs (S30 has just USB output).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Good evening Mike,

Thanks! I really look forward to installing them.

No, I'm not a "bits are bits" person

But I'm concerned about compromising the sound of the DAC.

The Taiko Extrem, Antipodes K50, etc., can run the Roon Core, which is convenient.

But this means they are computers capable of a lot of computing power. And Roon needs a lot of computing power. And that's noisy, really noisy.

Most of their cost is related to making them as quiet as possible.

In the context of Roon, the elegant solution would be a very well designed Roon Endpoint and a Roon Rock server somewhere on the network away from the hifi (NUC, or anything else, doesn't make a difference).

By very well designed, I mean a no-compromise design.

Doing just one thing : being the perfect Roon End Point.

Low power, low noise, capable of receiving and reclocking perfectly the data, buffering it, etc., etc. And then sending it to the DAC as "silently" as possible.

Interestingly there aren't high-quality Roon End Points.

I would fancy a Taiko, Antipodes, Soulution, etc. Roon End Point.

Currently only Sonore produces dedicated minimalistic streamers, like the Signature Rendu SE Optical.

The other elegant option would be to implement the RAAT protocol into the LAN adapter included in the 760.

thank you for your answer. your perspective of equating 'simple' with low noise regarding Roon end points may or may not be right. i'm out of my depth to get into the techie weeds to dispute your opinion. but i suspect you are wrong.

EDIT : just to be clear, I abviously wasn't planning to connect the NUC/Roon Rock to the 760.

so you buy a 70k euro or $80k USD dac, and then plan on not using it for streaming? help me with the logic of that, unless they are in different systems. streaming offers millions of tracks, with plenty of new music added weekly. i can't imagine a better use of a great dac (i'm assuming you are using Quboz with it's high rez)..

i have a spendy dac like the 760, which works excellent for streaming. i use Roon but the Extreme server has better sounding software i can choose to use, with a less elegant interface. so i can decide what my priorities are for my listening. also; the Extreme uses PCIe internal memory for my files, which clearly out-perform my remote NAS servers for file listening.

 

[TDX]

Not a lot of HiEnd choices to pair with your level of dac. Extreme being one. Then esoteric n03T, pachanko masterpiece, Grimm audio can be your choices. I’m currently using a renolabs server which sounds pretty good out of the box. However, I only played it for a few hours, too early to determine.

 

[SwissTom]

Not a lot of HiEnd choices to pair with your level of dac. Extreme being one. Then esoteric n03T, pachanko masterpiece, Grimm audio can be your choices. I’m currently using a renolabs server which sounds pretty good out of the box. However, I only played it for a few hours, too early to determine.

Thanks a lot TXD!

The Esoteric Network Audio Transport N-03T could well be exactly what I'm looking for.

N-03T | SPECIFICATIONS | ESOTERIC:Japan high-end audio manufacturer | エソテリック

Pride and Mission of ESOTERIC - The joy of the highest level of musical elation

www.esoteric.jp

Nice discovery!

I checked the Grimm Audio MU1 too.

It seems to be a "pimped" or "augmented" Intel/NUC...

 

[SwissTom]

You can get Antipodes S30 and configure it as ‘player’.

If was to buy an Antipodes, I'd probably go directly to the K50.

But using it as a player only would be a waste

 

[Elberoth]

If you already have the Roon Rock server, I would try the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo with PSU. Me and many of my friends had great success with this endpoint.

 

[SwissTom]

If you already have the Roon Rock server, I would try the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo with PSU. Me and many of my friends had great success with this endpoint.

Do you believe it is a better transport then the Esoteric Network Audio Transport N-03T I mentioned above?

 

[Elberoth]

No idea. I have no experience with Esoteric. With with SOTM beeing so small, it is easy to borrow one from a dealer to try in your system. Make sure you get it with a power supply, preferably sth better than sotm's own SMS-500 (Farad 3, SBooster etc)

 

[SwissTom]

No idea.

Just checked, they are in very different price ranges. The Esoteric is ~12K USD

 

[Elberoth]

If you olny want to send money vs get great sound, then by all means skip the SOtM. I have 3 friends running SOTM-200 Ultra with their dCS Rossini DACs, as it sounds better than the in-built Ethernet card.

 

[Stereophonic]

Swiss Tom, please, don’t fool yourself.
Your sound will be as good as your worst component…
Think about it, you begins thinking about Lumin U1 and you are already thinking about Esoteric N03.
If you buy N03 i assure you will end selling it (losing money) and buying a top audiophile Server.
Transport is only a server without storage disk included.
I’ve been Esoteric user for years, but they have lost his north…
Sure it will sound nice, but with your Dac level you only need listening a top server vs entry level one to get the right answer.
With your logic, your amp would be very noisy with four switched mode power supplies. Cheapest power supplies in such expensive amp?
Listening is always mandatory…

 

[TDX]

Thanks a lot TXD!

The Esoteric Network Audio Transport N-03T could well be exactly what I'm looking for.

N-03T | SPECIFICATIONS | ESOTERIC:Japan high-end audio manufacturer | エソテリック

Pride and Mission of ESOTERIC - The joy of the highest level of musical elation

www.esoteric.jp

Nice discovery!

I checked the Grimm Audio MU1 too.

It seems to be a "pimped" or "augmented" Intel/NUC...

They are all some what computers, haha.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Good evening Mike,

Thanks! I really look forward to installing them.

No, I'm not a "bits are bits" person

But I'm concerned about compromising the sound of the DAC.

The Taiko Extrem, Antipodes K50, etc., can run the Roon Core, which is convenient.

But this means they are computers capable of a lot of computing power. And Roon needs a lot of computing power. And that's noisy, really noisy.

Most of their cost is related to making them as quiet as possible.

In the context of Roon, the elegant solution would be a very well designed Roon Endpoint and a Roon Rock server somewhere on the network away from the hifi (NUC, or anything else, doesn't make a difference).

By very well designed, I mean a no-compromise design.

Doing just one thing : being the perfect Roon End Point.

Low power, low noise, capable of receiving and reclocking perfectly the data, buffering it, etc., etc. And then sending it to the DAC as "silently" as possible.

Interestingly there aren't high-quality Roon End Points.

I would fancy a Taiko, Antipodes, Soulution, etc. Roon End Point.

Currently only Sonore produces dedicated minimalistic streamers, like the Signature Rendu SE Optical.

The other elegant option would be to implement the RAAT protocol into the LAN adapter included in the 760.

EDIT : just to be clear, I abviously wasn't planning to connect the NUC/Roon Rock to the 760.

Welcome swiss Tom to wbf.

 

[SwissTom]

Transport is only a server without storage disk included.

I'm sorry but I can't agree.

A transport is, or should be, a low power and low computing power, low noise device. It accepts data from a server, buffers it, re-clocks it, re-buffers it again, sends it to the DAC as noiselessly as possible. A transport is more on the client side of the Client-Server partnership.

A server is, by nature, a powerful machine. It has a lot more computing power. It runs server software, or both server and client software. Therefore it is a noisy beast. Sending a data stream noiselessly to the DAC is then a challenge.

Running Roon, which is really a computing power hungry beast, in a server connected to the DAC is a mistake. Roon Labs advise against it.

Considering the above, companies like Aurender don't produce servers capable of harbouring Roon Core (the Roon server software). They don't want to. Which I believe is a good idea.

If I had to leave Roon and buy a server, I'd probably go for Aurender. I like their pragmatic approach.

In my day-to-day usage, Roon is a delight.

I mostly listen to classical music. For that particular genre, Roon is by far the best music organizer. Its ability to automatically tag the music and automatically link interpretations of the same composition throughout the library is outstanding.

As said a TDX said above "Not a lot of HiEnd choices to pair with". I wonder why?

EDIT :

If Aurender produces a new Roon capable version of the W20SE I'll buy it. They are so reluctant to provide Roon on their products that I see it as a "design quality".