Always a little uncertain as they 'open up'...good luck...does sound like they're pretty amazing if you are comparing them with Boulder 2060 which i've heard and remains in the top 2 for me personally. If you are speaking of 'more energetic' on the margin, perhaps there are ways in the rest of the system to edge the overall sound one way or the other to your liking?
Rowland M925 - The amplifier saga continues
- Thread starter AMP
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Always a little uncertain as they 'open up'...good luck...does sound like they're pretty amazing if you are comparing them with Boulder 2060 which i've heard and remains in the top 2 for me personally. If you are speaking of 'more energetic' on the margin, perhaps there are ways in the rest of the system to edge the overall sound one way or the other to your liking?
It's hard to describe, but the best example that I've been able to come up with (and the one I played for my dealer this morning) is Harry James (King James Version, Sheffield). With the Boulder combo Harry's trumpet was incredibly bold and brash to the point that it gave me goosebumps and made the listening experience really exciting.... so much so that I played this recording (both CD and LP) more times in the six weeks that I had the Boulders on loan than I had in the previous six years. On the 925s the trumpet is incredibly rich and full of body, but I'm not having the same visceral reaction to it that I had with the Boulders.
I've heard trumpets sound both ways live and not having had the pleasure of hearing Harry live I can't say which one is right.
I can't really argue that one presentation is better than the other, it's just a matter of taste.
Either way the 925s are quite worthy successors to the Model 9s and a real accomplishment of which Jeff must be very proud.
I had one "holy crap" listening session during the first week so the potential is definitely there, it's just a matter of what it will take to get it there 100% of the time. Worst case I go with the Boulders and know that I did my due diligence. I had been waiting for a long time for the 925s to be released I would have always had a nagging thought in the back of my mind had I not tried them.
Right now I'm having fun with the journey.... not sure what the destination will be, but getting there sure is fun!
This far we have determined that an M925 juvenile with approximately 400 hours of operation does appear to sound different from a mature Boulder 2060 with thousands of hours of music on its chassis, and that the well broken in Boulder may sound more incisive than the quasi-factory-fresh Rowland.
We can reasonably conjecture that a well broken in Rowland M925 with some 1500 hours of music making may also sound different from an equally well broken in Boulder 2060. Yet, until a component has reached sonic maturity, any preferential evaluation, of both objective and subjective varieties, does remain an iffy matter, maddengly prone to second guessings, false positives, and false negatives... I should know it.... I am guilty of having seen both varieties, or should I say "heard" *grins!*
Bottomline... "Ah Audiophrenia, thou art a harsh mistress!"
Note. For a rigorous and scientific discussion of the audiophrenic disorder and of its dangers, see the following scholarly paper:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue46/audiophrenia.htm
G.
We can reasonably conjecture that a well broken in Rowland M925 with some 1500 hours of music making may also sound different from an equally well broken in Boulder 2060. Yet, until a component has reached sonic maturity, any preferential evaluation, of both objective and subjective varieties, does remain an iffy matter, maddengly prone to second guessings, false positives, and false negatives... I should know it.... I am guilty of having seen both varieties, or should I say "heard" *grins!*
Bottomline... "Ah Audiophrenia, thou art a harsh mistress!"
Note. For a rigorous and scientific discussion of the audiophrenic disorder and of its dangers, see the following scholarly paper:
http://positive-feedback.com/Issue46/audiophrenia.htm
G.
AMP, are you using the same exact upstream gear with the 925's as you were with the 2060's? Same room and speakers/speaker placement? Otherwise, I'm not so sure you can place the differences that you ascertain to the 925's at their doorstep.
Just to clarify, I never had (nor do I have) any intention of this thread turning into a M925 vs. Boulder 2060 competition where the last amp left standing is declared the winner. There's absolutely no point in that and as you've pointed out this process is in its infancy and there are few valid conclusions which can be drawn.
I'm merely trying to document my experience as it may be valuable to people considering the M925s now and in the future. Furthermore, as I'm likely the only person in the US, short of Jeff Rowland himself, with any significant listening experience with the 925s I thought that it may be worth comparing my current experience with the 925s against my past experience with the Boulder 2060. Given that the two amps exist at similar price points it's highly likely that someone considering the 925s, but lacking the ability to audition them, will have had some experience with the 2060 over its 15 year lifespan.
The Boulder 2010 preamp and 2060 amp were in my system from 11/22/12 - 1/6/13. The Corus and 925s simply took their place. Same room, speakers, cables, placement, etc. The only other change is that I've been doing the bulk of my digital listening with the Aeris as opposed to the Wadia 931/922. The analog section of my system has remained the same.
As far as I'm concerned the differences relate to the 925s and Corus preamp when viewed as a single "system." Given that I've always had the best results in recognizing the common DNA between one manufacturer's amps and preamps I've always been hesitant to mix and match those components.
Finally, I must reiterate that I do not have any negative opinions of the 925s whatsoever and, in fact, I'm quite impressed by them. Ultimately, I need to decide if their flavor is to MY liking.
AMP, is it not possible that the differences that you are attributing to the 2060 vs. the 925's could be in fact the differences between the 2010 and the Corus? It would be an interesting experiment to see what the sound of the 2060's would be when utilized with the Corus and of course, the 925's with the 2010. In other words, what is contributing to the differences that you hear when listening to Harry's trumpet...is it the preamp or is it the amp(s), or maybe both?
Entirely possible and something which I have considered. Unfortunately, the 2010 which I had on loan is no longer available and the chances of getting the 2060 back for a head-to-head are slim. I have run the DAC directly to the 925s and although this yielded a change in sound (slightly more focus and slightly more meat on the bones) it wasn't a drastic difference. All that this proves is that the Corus isn't really subtracting anything in its current state, but it doesn't address whether or not the 2010 was adding something.
Hi Guido, the dealer has exchanged my 925 with a new pair from tlhe new shipment and the new ones make a lot of different even at first hearing. The sound image is higher and has more depth and definition to the sound stage. Of course there is some congestion at complicated orchestrial passages as expected without proper running-in, but the articulation of the various instruments is beyond reproach even after a few hours hearing and is improving every hour. The phase issue as mentioned before for the returned 925 using the Stereophile test record does not exist anymore. I will continue to run in the 925 and report later.
Best Regards,
B
When you say the sound is different on the new one. Is this just the difference in phase, eg if you reverse the phase does it sound like the other amps?
I would be a bit concerned with a just released amp that they have all ready made changes to it.
I would guess that there was a defect in construction or a part failure which led to bkwan's problems. Just for grins I put one of mine out of phase and the sound changed dramatically just at bkwan described.
The difference is the sound stage is more defined and higher in position. All the instruments are more articulated with definite positioning in layers. I do think these improvements are mainly due to the phase issue. No doubt these amps are musical and drive my speakers so effortlesslly with fineness and authority.
View attachment 8834
M925 with Avalon Isis at Kaohsiung show, Taiwan.
View attachment 8835
Looking good!
View attachment 8836
At the back.
M925 with Avalon Isis at Kaohsiung show, Taiwan.
View attachment 8835
Looking good!
View attachment 8836
At the back.
Any new thoughts on these amps during the break-in process? I have been listening to a pair from first power-up and every couple of days since. They have been in constant use for about 11days now, and I am impressed with 1) how terrific they sound dead cold, and 2) how they have opened up since. I will hear them again tomorrow. Amp, I think you have the head-start, so I am curious about your observations. We have set the turn-on light to its lowest level, but I wish Jeff had made a lower " dim" setting.
Hi MrDean, Sorry for bargin in... I am still waiting for my own pair... I envy you so!
Spoke to Mr. Rowland just a few days ago. He told me that the break in process may take very long because of the very large professional-grade input transformers that he is using... I am getting the suspicion that break-in may extend way beyond 1200 hours of active operation.
What PCs, speaker wires, and ICs are you using? Are you powering M925 through a conditioner or directly from the AC outlet?
Guido
Spoke to Mr. Rowland just a few days ago. He told me that the break in process may take very long because of the very large professional-grade input transformers that he is using... I am getting the suspicion that break-in may extend way beyond 1200 hours of active operation.
What PCs, speaker wires, and ICs are you using? Are you powering M925 through a conditioner or directly from the AC outlet?
Guido
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