Terry for the record I totally disagree with your characterization. It's as I stated in another thread. I don't measure you (all) disagree. I measure you disagree. I don't DBT, you disagree. I agree to DBT, you disagree. I'm out.
Sanders Sound Systems - electrostatic
- Thread starter kach22i
- Start date
I agree!
only joking.
look, don't know what's up, other than I have rubbed you up the wrong way.
sorry bout that. I'd make it better if I could, but it's prob too late now.
can we agree that we need more south park references??
only joking.
look, don't know what's up, other than I have rubbed you up the wrong way.
sorry bout that. I'd make it better if I could, but it's prob too late now.
can we agree that we need more south park references??
Thanks. I knew about the speakers (J Gordon Holt was a fan, correct?) but didn't really know of the founders.
And if the Spider said to the fly :
Step into my DBT and I will prove it is a valid tool of evaluation.
Come hither, hither, curious audiophile, with the pearl and silver cables;
Your ears are golden , but mine are like tin!"
Would you have accepted?
can we agree that we need more south park references??
Now, I originally intended to ask everyone to be grown ups again, but thinking about it, this request would now be coming from someone who just posted a Cheesy Poofs video -
and that would be . . . lame
Angela
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I don't have "pearl and silver cables." I accepted the DBT. It was Terry who backed out. Just so we are clear- I have no problem examining the results of double blind tests. If they appear to actually provide some value. What I categorically reject is the methodology being used as an argument unto itself. For example." You don't know what you are talking about because you did not perform a DBT." Bring me the results of the formal test. Not just some anecdotal evidence that someone somewhere could not pick the cables he claimed were better.
Lastly I never claimed to have "golden ears." Nor do I know of any reviewer that has. I could be wrong. I humbly suggest that anyone with normal hearing can hear everything from my system that I hear. Whether than can measure it with existing metrics and equipment is another argument. I certainly invite them to try.
Why would a person who is so adverse to DBT post this on this site: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1363-Harry-Pearson-at-RMAF-2009 See post 7&8?
Finally, I am through debating DBT no matter how much anyone baits me. This is exactly why so many threads have banned DBT discussions. Don't' worry, whatever tweaks or cables I bought along my audiophile journey, I enjoyed the hell out of them whether they had any sonic benefit or not.
Goodnight
Lastly I never claimed to have "golden ears." Nor do I know of any reviewer that has. I could be wrong. I humbly suggest that anyone with normal hearing can hear everything from my system that I hear. Whether than can measure it with existing metrics and equipment is another argument. I certainly invite them to try.
Why would a person who is so adverse to DBT post this on this site: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1363-Harry-Pearson-at-RMAF-2009 See post 7&8?
Finally, I am through debating DBT no matter how much anyone baits me. This is exactly why so many threads have banned DBT discussions. Don't' worry, whatever tweaks or cables I bought along my audiophile journey, I enjoyed the hell out of them whether they had any sonic benefit or not.
Goodnight
ahh, someone agreed. When my 'invite' for more south park references seemed to be ignored, I was gonna make the observation that if we could not agree on the important things in life..namely more south park references being required..how could we ever agree on the mundane unimportant stuff like audio??
clever. like the cut of your jib.
pretty sure I'm right in that you were not referring to me, but thought I'd better check, just in case I missed something. Seein as how I have managed to **** you off a tad (sorry)
If not me, is there a story I am missing?? inquiring minds and all that
clever. like the cut of your jib.
pretty sure I'm right in that you were not referring to me, but thought I'd better check, just in case I missed something. Seein as how I have managed to **** you off a tad (sorry)
If not me, is there a story I am missing?? inquiring minds and all that
Yes, there is a story - my mail was just supposed to be an innofensive humourous adaptation of the Mary Howitt poem, not to provoque people or taking part in the discussion.
...
"Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple -- there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!"
Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue --
Thinking only of her crested head -- poor foolish thing! At last,
Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den,
Within his little parlour -- but she ne'er came out again!
And now dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed:
Unto an evil counsellor, close heart and ear and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly."
Disclaimer - I have nothing against pearl and silver cables - I own Kimber KS1136 ! But my ears are not of gold, neither tin ...
Did I tell y'all the story of our retired neighbors (retired director of music at University of Florida) and their son and daughter-in-law (both concert cellists)?
- Angela
- Angela
I did searches and couldn't find it, so here's the story:
Background- We live up at 9,000 feet in The Rocky Mountains. We live on a cul-de-sac with 4 houses. Most properties are either 5 or 10 acres. We had new neighbors move in at the end of the street a couple of years ago. They are both retired university professors, but he was the director of music at University of FL, Miami (yeah, moved from Miami to here!).
This past spring, we had a huge wind storm that took down quite a few trees around here. Our neighbors had about 20 or so pine trees that were either down or uprooted. Roger went over with his chain saw and took them all down and limbed them and cut them into firewood splitting size, arranged for a friend to come get the firewood and Roger and I hauled off all the slash in June when we have slash days up here, sponsored by the county and fire departments. Living in The Rockies, fire is the big natural disaster for us, so we work hard to keep things mitigated.
This was the first time we had spent much time around them other than the usual, "hey, how ya doin'?" stuff you do with neighbors. We found out their background in music, saw the baby grand piano in their living room (she fed us lunch that day!) and so of course we invited them to come up anytime and listen to whatever they wanted on our system, for fun. Their son and daughter-in-law were coming into town for a day or so and they asked if they could bring them over to listen.
They both play cellos and record their sessions and they thought it would be fun to bring them over and do something different on this trip than just sit around. So they all came up on a Saturday and had the best time. They brought recordings of themselves playing and when we put it on, the daughter-in-law turned around to us and said "this is what I think I sound like when I am playing!" That was a huge compliment, of course. We then learned that they had been searching for a long time for a system that could reproduce their recordings so that it sounded like what they hear when they listen live. They left that day buying a complete system. While that was not the intent of the visit, it was just neighbors hanging out, it was quite a wonderful day to watch the looks on their faces and the excitement in their voices.
That day really sums it all up for me.
BONUS PS: Roger got a huge supply of some of the world's best chocolate (even by his standards, it was huge!) and I got a case of some serious wine as a thank you gift for that day.
Background- We live up at 9,000 feet in The Rocky Mountains. We live on a cul-de-sac with 4 houses. Most properties are either 5 or 10 acres. We had new neighbors move in at the end of the street a couple of years ago. They are both retired university professors, but he was the director of music at University of FL, Miami (yeah, moved from Miami to here!).
This past spring, we had a huge wind storm that took down quite a few trees around here. Our neighbors had about 20 or so pine trees that were either down or uprooted. Roger went over with his chain saw and took them all down and limbed them and cut them into firewood splitting size, arranged for a friend to come get the firewood and Roger and I hauled off all the slash in June when we have slash days up here, sponsored by the county and fire departments. Living in The Rockies, fire is the big natural disaster for us, so we work hard to keep things mitigated.
This was the first time we had spent much time around them other than the usual, "hey, how ya doin'?" stuff you do with neighbors. We found out their background in music, saw the baby grand piano in their living room (she fed us lunch that day!) and so of course we invited them to come up anytime and listen to whatever they wanted on our system, for fun. Their son and daughter-in-law were coming into town for a day or so and they asked if they could bring them over to listen.
They both play cellos and record their sessions and they thought it would be fun to bring them over and do something different on this trip than just sit around. So they all came up on a Saturday and had the best time. They brought recordings of themselves playing and when we put it on, the daughter-in-law turned around to us and said "this is what I think I sound like when I am playing!" That was a huge compliment, of course. We then learned that they had been searching for a long time for a system that could reproduce their recordings so that it sounded like what they hear when they listen live. They left that day buying a complete system. While that was not the intent of the visit, it was just neighbors hanging out, it was quite a wonderful day to watch the looks on their faces and the excitement in their voices.
That day really sums it all up for me.
BONUS PS: Roger got a huge supply of some of the world's best chocolate (even by his standards, it was huge!) and I got a case of some serious wine as a thank you gift for that day.
Just for completeness, here's the original story:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...r-The-Perfect-Listening-Chair&p=8222#post8222
Both versions match, so sounds like a true story!!!
The cello is a hard instrument to get "right" in listening. Well done!
Lee
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...r-The-Perfect-Listening-Chair&p=8222#post8222
Both versions match, so sounds like a true story!!!
The cello is a hard instrument to get "right" in listening. Well done!
Lee
as Mark Twain once said “Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most” . .
Thanks for posting the link and sorry for posting the story twice.
Thanks for posting the link and sorry for posting the story twice.
Concluding many years of anticipation I finally heard the SandersSoundsystem. I also met Roger who is a gentlemen. I suppose it is your call whether you think a small sweet spot is a problem or a preference. Additionally you decide whether you think solid state and digital is the way to go. These debates did not originate with Roger Sanders and will not end here.
A long time ML/CLS lover, I am never unaware that I am listening to an electrostatic speaker with all its limitations. Ignoring the sweet spot issue Roger has solved the problems of the electrostatic speaker. At least he has effectively dealt with them.
1.A small electrostat panel.
2. Capable of high SPL.
3. Full range frequency response.
4. Spectral balance
5. Undetectable discontinuity between the electrostat panel and the dynamic woofer.
6. Does jazz and rock and roll with the same ease.
I have said before I don't know how to write a review. My thought has always been that electrostatics are the way to go. The benefits far outweighed the sacrifices. What Roger has done in a reasonably sized, affordable package is what everyone thought was impossible since the introduction of the original Quad. This is a full range, distortion free system, capable of high SPL. Yes he cheated by using a dynamic woofer. IMO there is no choice unless you want to make massive panels like Soundlab. That comes at considerable costs and limited success.
For those of us who had given up on ever having a full range system because we love electrostats, could not fit it in our room, or could not deal with the six (okay upper five) figure cost, hope is on the horizon. A SandersSoundsystem may be the answer to your quest.
You will note that I have referred to the SandersSoundsystem. I think this may be quite a problem for you. Do you buy the speaker and assemble your own system, or purchase Rogers electronics? I suspect not only are there better tube amps, there are better solid sate amps. I had this discussion with a couple of designers/dealers at RMAF. These designers have taken the trouble to assemble a system that delivers the sound they were trying to achieve. They have no way of knowing what the results are when the end user starts mixing and matching other components.
Congratulations to Roger and Angela. If what I described is what you're looking for, I highly recommend an audition. Your choice of associate components is always your call. At least try to listen to the system as Roger intended it to sound. Your search may be over. Any way we audiophiles are always switching amps.
A long time ML/CLS lover, I am never unaware that I am listening to an electrostatic speaker with all its limitations. Ignoring the sweet spot issue Roger has solved the problems of the electrostatic speaker. At least he has effectively dealt with them.
1.A small electrostat panel.
2. Capable of high SPL.
3. Full range frequency response.
4. Spectral balance
5. Undetectable discontinuity between the electrostat panel and the dynamic woofer.
6. Does jazz and rock and roll with the same ease.
I have said before I don't know how to write a review. My thought has always been that electrostatics are the way to go. The benefits far outweighed the sacrifices. What Roger has done in a reasonably sized, affordable package is what everyone thought was impossible since the introduction of the original Quad. This is a full range, distortion free system, capable of high SPL. Yes he cheated by using a dynamic woofer. IMO there is no choice unless you want to make massive panels like Soundlab. That comes at considerable costs and limited success.
For those of us who had given up on ever having a full range system because we love electrostats, could not fit it in our room, or could not deal with the six (okay upper five) figure cost, hope is on the horizon. A SandersSoundsystem may be the answer to your quest.
You will note that I have referred to the SandersSoundsystem. I think this may be quite a problem for you. Do you buy the speaker and assemble your own system, or purchase Rogers electronics? I suspect not only are there better tube amps, there are better solid sate amps. I had this discussion with a couple of designers/dealers at RMAF. These designers have taken the trouble to assemble a system that delivers the sound they were trying to achieve. They have no way of knowing what the results are when the end user starts mixing and matching other components.
Congratulations to Roger and Angela. If what I described is what you're looking for, I highly recommend an audition. Your choice of associate components is always your call. At least try to listen to the system as Roger intended it to sound. Your search may be over. Any way we audiophiles are always switching amps.
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Greg, thank you so much. Roger told me last night (as we soaked in the hot tub after 3 days of the show), about your visit. He was pleased to finally meet you and that you had the opportunity to sit down and really listen to the system. He is with his dealer from Singapore all day today, but I'll make sure that he sees this tonight or tomorrow.
Cheers!
Angela
Cheers!
Angela
I heard very fine sound in the Sanders room. Very nice integration of the woofer and decent slam. They are quite beautiful(at least to my eyes).
REB
REB
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