Selecting amplification - Vitus vs T+A vs

pevan

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Aug 9, 2022
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Hello,

I am coming to you for a piece of advice, direction.

I am thinking to make (another upgrade) in the amplification. While I am happy with the sound in my room, I do enjoy my time, I do have emotional moments, I am able to connect with my music ... however ... I miss at times a better separation of instruments/voices with orchestras, contrast (dynamics), crescendo - there is something just a little bit missing. I notice that, let's say, 5% to 10% of listening time with highly complex recordings (orchestra, orchestra with choir, choir, etc.) . Is this the trigger to upgrade (again)? I am still not fully convinced about the upgrade. I auditioned in recent weeks and months several systems at hi-fi shows, at dealers, at home .. and realize the answer is not going to be easy.

I noticed that the separates (pre and power amp) do typically offer better readability of the music, and virtually move the needle from 5% to 10% "not happy" rather to 2% of "this system does not fit this music". The challenge to more/remove this needle from 5-10 to 2 will cost significantly more than what I invested up until now. This is not going to be a major jump, this is going to be a major step. I like fast, defined, articulated presentation, with well defined and realistic soundstage, with real sized instruments/voices. I am currently with T+A integrated amplifier. I narrow my selection (again, I still return back to T+A) T+A HV series preamp P3100 and power amp A3000, and (I know this is not a competitor as it costs more and it is superintegrate solution of practically pre and power amp in one box) Vitus SIA 030, and the last choice would be - no upgrade, and resist to the "upgrade call". I guess what I am trying to say is in the first place - does the upgrade make sense, in the first place?

Option A) T+A HV
+ speed, familiar sound, analytical, honest, neutral, no-color to sound (most will call it "sterile"), realistic size of instruments
- separates, more cables, more space, potentially no-end-game amplification

Option B) Vitus
+ organic, fluid, end-game-amplification, tone, natural, soundstage, imaging
- large, price, no tone controls

Option C)
+ by more records, by more DSDs, hunt music - not gear

... just realize, the above already gives the answer. Trust, as you are more experienced and run through this journey, you may have ideas I was not thinking about.

Thank you!

P.
 

Audire

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Well I’m a little prejudice as I just purchased some Vitus SM-103 monos from my dealer (Tony @ Ellington HiFi). They are amazing amps that IMO do everything right. Here’s a brief review. I heard one of their RI-101 integrated prior to purchasing the monos. Both are excellent.
 

pevan

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Thank Joe. I read and follow your journey. Vitus sound is not easy to forget. It is just right. One of a few, where I can enjoy the music, and not thinkning about the gear
 
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bryans

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Well let me first say I'm biased as you can tell by my avatar (T+A Integrated). I agree with you on separates vs. integrated but like you know how much is that extra bit worth.

If I was going to upgrade I would look to go separates either T+A or Vitus. Even if you went Vitus integrated I would think at some point you will ask yourself about Vitus Amp/Preamp combo. Well maybe I am thinking of myself here ;)

Are you able to do a demo in your home with T+A or Vitus separates? It would be interesting to see how much of a difference they really make in your setup.

Good luck in your search. I don't believe you are going to go wrong with any of your options.
 
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pevan

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Well let me first say I'm biased as you can tell by my avatar (T+A Integrated). I agree with you on separates vs. integrated but like you know how much is that extra bit worth.

If I was going to upgrade I would look to go separates either T+A or Vitus. Even if you went Vitus integrated I would think at some point you will ask yourself about Vitus Amp/Preamp combo. Well maybe I am thinking of myself here ;)

Are you able to do a demo in your home with T+A or Vitus separates? It would be interesting to see how much of a difference they really make in your setup.

Good luck in your search. I don't believe you are going to go wrong with any of your options.
Thank you for the though. I am looking at SIA as one box with components inside. Utm you are right after while, I may question it.
I can make T+A at home, but not with Vitus. Unfortunatelly. Well, actually, I have not asked the dealer.

totally agree, at this price point, there is no wrong/bad choice, it is all about taste.
 
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benito

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You should ask Leif (the Endeavor designer) which amp fits with your speakers and may be move your thread to VSA sub-forum in order to have more though.
 
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Barry2013

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Thank you for the though. I am looking at SIA as one box with components inside. Utm you are right after while, I may question it.
I can make T+A at home, but not with Vitus. Unfortunatelly. Well, actually, I have not asked the dealer.

totally agree, at this price point, there is no wrong/bad choice, it is all about taste.
If it is of any consolation I can understand your dilemma as set out in your opening post which is how can I get what I want without spending more than I want to, but do correct me if I have incorrectly interpreted your OP.
It's a problem most, if not all of us ,in this hobby come up against and IME you can easily end up spending more because the less expensive option proves unsatisfying and you can then ending spending even more.
I had a Vitus SIA 025 for about 5 years and it really is a top class amp. I traded it in about two years ago for an 030 after having heard it at Munich. I am in doubt that it is a better amp as you would expect given the price difference, but it is big and heavy and lacks the 025's aesthetic appeal. But, the sound quality is significantly better.I prefer the convenience of an integrated and,of course, you only need one power cable as opposed to two or three with the pre/power alternatives which is a useful saving,
I did also consider the T+A HV,( which by the way needs two pcs) while I still had the 025. It is a good amp, but I never took to its sound in the 2/3 weeks I had it in the house to audition. It lacked the liquid flow of the Vitus and sounded more digital than analogue to me It was transparent and revealing but lacked the musicality of the 025 and even more so the 030 I now have.
Obviously there are questions of taste involved in choosing an amplifier and they can and do differ, but it's not a good idea to buy something that is not as much to your taste as you would ideally like.
Hope that helps!

.
 
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pevan

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You should ask Leif (the Endeavor designer) which amp fits with your speakers and may be move your thread to VSA sub-forum in order to have more though.
Good point. I did not ask about amplifier while selecting speakers.
 
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pevan

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Aug 9, 2022
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If it is of any consolation I can understand your dilemma as set out in your opening post which is how can I get what I want without spending more than I want to, but do correct me if I have incorrectly interpreted your OP.
It's a problem most, if not all of us ,in this hobby come up against and IME you can easily end up spending more because the less expensive option proves unsatisfying and you can then ending spending even more.
I had a Vitus SIA 025 for about 5 years and it really is a top class amp. I traded it in about two years ago for an 030 after having heard it at Munich. I am in doubt that it is a better amp as you would expect given the price difference, but it is big and heavy and lacks the 025's aesthetic appeal. But, the sound quality is significantly better.I prefer the convenience of an integrated and,of course, you only need one power cable as opposed to two or three with the pre/power alternatives which is a useful saving,
I did also consider the T+A HV,( which by the way needs two pcs) while I still had the 025. It is a good amp, but I never took to its sound in the 2/3 weeks I had it in the house to audition. It lacked the liquid flow of the Vitus and sounded more digital than analogue to me It was transparent and revealing but lacked the musicality of the 025 and even more so the 030 I now have.
Obviously there are questions of taste involved in choosing an amplifier and they can and do differ, but it's not a good idea to buy something that is not as much to your taste as you would ideally like.
Hope that helps!

.
Appreciate your thoughts. Actually, it is not about whether I can get better sound for less. I am already happy with my sound. I do listen faaar less to the gear, as I used to. I extended my music collection faster than gear. However, there are moments where I can hear the limits of my current amplifier. And that disturb me from my listening, and I start listen to lhe limits, not music. So, if I upgrade, will I ever be happy? Every combination has own limits, or music which simply does not fit. I do not want to be in a position to realize there are limits (most likely, less often, but for more money). Vitus is called by many as the end game amplifier; less often finding its limits, or music which does not fit. … probably, this is a philosophical question, raher than an audio gear question.
 

bryans

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So, if I upgrade, will I ever be happy?
Very valid point. Only you can answer this one. There are times when people just want to try something new.
Vitus is called by many as the end game amplifier
I have heard plenty of people claim different brands are the end game. Then a new product or new version comes out and then that becomes the new end game.

(again, I still return back to T+A)
As you said in your original post, if you keep going back to T+A that says something. As you know at these high levels of gear, is there really a bad decision?
 
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pevan

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Very valid point. Only you can answer this one. There are times when people just want to try something new.

I have heard plenty of people claim different brands are the end game. Then a new product or new version comes out and then that becomes the new end game.


As you said in your original post, if you keep going back to T+A that says something. As you know at these high levels of gear, is there really a bad decision?

thank you for this :) trust me your answers, and returning back my own statements already helps.
 

Thieliste

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Aug 31, 2014
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thank you for this :) trust me your answers, and returning back my own statements already helps.
You should also consider the Audionet Humboldt.
I’ve demoed it in my system, just spectacular and i own the SIA-025.
 

pevan

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I was thinking of Audionet, unfortunatelly, I do not have possibility to hear it around
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hello,

I am coming to you for a piece of advice, direction.

I am thinking to make (another upgrade) in the amplification. While I am happy with the sound in my room, I do enjoy my time, I do have emotional moments, I am able to connect with my music ... however ... I miss at times a better separation of instruments/voices with orchestras, contrast (dynamics), crescendo - there is something just a little bit missing. I notice that, let's say, 5% to 10% of listening time with highly complex recordings (orchestra, orchestra with choir, choir, etc.) . Is this the trigger to upgrade (again)? I am still not fully convinced about the upgrade. I auditioned in recent weeks and months several systems at hi-fi shows, at dealers, at home .. and realize the answer is not going to be easy.

I noticed that the separates (pre and power amp) do typically offer better readability of the music, and virtually move the needle from 5% to 10% "not happy" rather to 2% of "this system does not fit this music". The challenge to more/remove this needle from 5-10 to 2 will cost significantly more than what I invested up until now. This is not going to be a major jump, this is going to be a major step. I like fast, defined, articulated presentation, with well defined and realistic soundstage, with real sized instruments/voices. I am currently with T+A integrated amplifier. I narrow my selection (again, I still return back to T+A) T+A HV series preamp P3100 and power amp A3000, and (I know this is not a competitor as it costs more and it is superintegrate solution of practically pre and power amp in one box) Vitus SIA 030, and the last choice would be - no upgrade, and resist to the "upgrade call". I guess what I am trying to say is in the first place - does the upgrade make sense, in the first place?

Option A) T+A HV
+ speed, familiar sound, analytical, honest, neutral, no-color to sound (most will call it "sterile"), realistic size of instruments
- separates, more cables, more space, potentially no-end-game amplification

Option B) Vitus
+ organic, fluid, end-game-amplification, tone, natural, soundstage, imaging
- large, price, no tone controls

Option C)
+ by more records, by more DSDs, hunt music - not gear

... just realize, the above already gives the answer. Trust, as you are more experienced and run through this journey, you may have ideas I was not thinking about.

Thank you!

P.
Have you ever looked into the Waversa LAN Ext? This is a front-end option that directly addresses your desired goals above. I was doing homework on the source-side...and have marveled at how the Waversa has allowed the Zanden digital to be all of its original voice...but with a newfound level of nuance, detail, articulation but also dynamics and power.

Readability is EXACTLY what it does. You asked for alternative options...I definitely believe this is one having just brought one home myself after auditioning and have been very very impressed.
 

pevan

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Have you ever looked into the Waversa LAN Ext? This is a front-end option that directly addresses your desired goals above. I was doing homework on the source-side...and have marveled at how the Waversa has allowed the Zanden digital to be all of its original voice...but with a newfound level of nuance, detail, articulation but also dynamics and power.

Readability is EXACTLY what it does. You asked for alternative options...I definitely believe this is one having just brought one home myself after auditioning and have been very very impressed.
.. not sure this is in the reply in the right thread. However, No - I have not heard about it, neither interested about LAN/Ethernet enhacement. I am happy about by digital part of my system. It may be missing a clock, Taiko grade server - this is not the level, I would think to go to at all.

I have been seeking for an advice with the amplification (sorry, there is a typo of this thread - if that is misleading. Sorry for that).
 

LL21

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.. not sure this is in the reply in the right thread. However, No - I have not heard about it, neither interested about LAN/Ethernet enhacement. I am happy about by digital part of my system. It may be missing a clock, Taiko grade server - this is not the level, I would think to go to at all.

I have been seeking for an advice with the amplification (sorry, there is a typo of this thread - if that is misleading. Sorry for that).
No problem...I was simply responding to your challenge of 'alternatives you had not thought of'...and I thought a radical alternative that hits exactly your target was not even within the realm of amplification. Waversa is an alternative that drives incredible articulation in complex orchestral. In our case, we dont use streaming. We simply put the Waversa in between the 4-box Zanden Transport/DAC and it was remarkable what it did for for all manner of music.

In any event, if you are definitely focused on articulation through amplification...there are definitely certain amps which excel at it. FMA for sure but exceptionally expensive, Vitus I am told, Gryphon in my experience though its not what one necessarily thinks of first when listening to Gryphon.
 

LL21

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For orchestra music separation -- Boulder Amps 2160.
Agree based on my far more limited experience with Boulder.
 

heihei

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Another vote for Audionet Humboldt - gets close to the Vitus for richness in tone but more detail and way more dynamics.
 

pevan

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LL21 understand now. Thank you.

I am in Europe ... Boulder is very exotic here. I cannot think where I would be able to hear that (the audio show does not offer critical listening).

Gryphon (Diablo 300) - for my ears, my taste - while dynamic, missing "the edge" and "texture". And last not least, for some reason, I did not have emotional connection to the music, I typically connect with. It was great and beatiful, but not for me.

Audionet Humbolt - I am in contact with dealer, whether they would be able to get for their demo for me.
 
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