Shakti is back to Digital ( Innuos, Roon, Brinkmann)

[spiritofmusic]

Shakti, very useful info re the compares on Zen Mini v Zen v Zenith v Statement.

Zenith looks like the sweetspot re performance/price ratio.

Can I ask some Qs on the Zen Mini? Just taken on it's own merits, purely as the cheapest entry to streaming for a fledgling consumer like me who is just starting out in streaming, not expecting it supplant my listening to physical media, lps AND cds, to tentatively delve into deep genre searches and back up main listening, at the same time as still providing a base level sound I will be comfortable with, and want to keep on listening and not be jarred by cheap digititis, does Zen Mini pass this test? Or is it's inherent SQ too compromised to stick with? Ie as a third source as back up and extending main two sources, even here do it's shortcomings jar?

 

[asiufy]

For high-end systems above the entry level, if one goes for the Zen mini, I strongly advise going for the optional linear PS as well, or better yet, the Zen.
As with anything in audio, you need to match the appropriate equipment to your current system, otherwise you'll end up with an obvious weak link.

 

[shakti]

Shakti, very useful info re the compares on Zen Mini v Zen v Zenith v Statement.

Zenith looks like the sweetspot re performance/price ratio.

Can I ask some Qs on the Zen Mini? Just taken on it's own merits, purely as the cheapest entry to streaming for a fledgling consumer like me who is just starting out in streaming, not expecting it supplant my listening to physical media, lps AND cds, to tentatively delve into deep genre searches and back up main listening, at the same time as still providing a base level sound I will be comfortable with, and want to keep on listening and not be jarred by cheap digititis, does Zen Mini pass this test? Or is it's inherent SQ too compromised to stick with? Ie as a third source as back up and extending main two sources, even here do it's shortcomings jar?

As you like the Zu speakers, you will like the Zen Mini Dynamic playing. As Zu is sensitive for harshness, the external PSU is a must, as this PSU changes the performance more close to Zen.

Zen has only LAN and USB outputs. So no solution for a set up with just a CD player or older DAC.

Zen mini has additional SPDIF (RCA) and a simple analog output.

The SPDIF output helps a lot, if you like to continue using an older DAC.

Using SPDIF will not allow to listen to DSD files, USB and LAN will support DSD.

Please do not safe money in buying too small HD capacity.
4TB (around 6000 album) is a good size to start.
You need a minimum of filled storage to enjoy programs like Roon.


If you enjoy streaming, you can go to Zenith or even further, the investment in Zen mini is safe, as you can use Zen mini still as external NAS to extend the available storage capacity.

 

[HughP3]

Sorry Shakti for the iphone spell correction of your username, I edited my post! Your not Shaky at all

 

[howiebrou]

Regarding the limited 4TB space, I tried at first a standard external NAS (from Western Digital). The result was less satisfying compared with the internal 4TB.

Than I tried a Melco N1/40 4TB, only used as external NAS to increase the available HD space.

The result was much better. Connecting the Melco with the Zenith with direct LAN connection was fine, but as I am using now 2x Melco N1 (in total external 8TB) , so I bought the

Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch

to connect the Zenith and the 2 Melco N1/40 NAS.

May i ask if the Melco N1 performance was on par with the internal 4TB SSD on the statement or is the internal SSD still the best?

 

[shakti]

May i ask if the Melco N1 performance was on par with the internal 4TB SSD on the statement or is the internal SSD still the best?

Internal SSD is still the best, but the Melco N1 (same for Zenith) does benefit a lot, if placed right. Melco N1 on HRS or CMS base is much better. This is (just my persona opinion) the limitation of standard Statement. The connection cables are too short, the the sensible device need to be placed on PSU.
In this configuration, Zenith SSD on CMS base can even be better for data storage. But Innuos ships with longer PSU cables on customer request ( and payment

 

[howiebrou]

Internal SSD is still the best, but the Melco N1 (same for Zenith) does benefit a lot, if placed right. Melco N1 on HRS or CMS base is much better. This is (just my persona opinion) the limitation of standard Statement. The connection cables are too short, the the sensible device need to be placed on PSU.
In this configuration, Zenith SSD on CMS base can even be better for data storage. But Innuos ships with longer PSU cables on customer request ( and payment

I saw the statement at the UK show and it had very long connecting cables. Funnily enough i commented on the short length of the cables at my local dealer and he told me that this sort length was ideal and that it was designed to be stacked. The Innuous guys at the show said longer lengths made no difference.

 

[howiebrou]

By the way have you looked at the LDMS servers? They can hold multiple 4TB SSDs and they have models that mirror the Innuous models quite closely AND they run Roon Core too.

https://www.lucasaudiolab.com/

 

[shakti]

By the way have you looked at the LDMS servers? They can hold multiple 4TB SSDs and they have models that mirror the Innuous models quite closely AND they run Roon Core too.

https://www.lucasaudiolab.com/

there are many companies having comparable products, too much to try all of them.

 

[spiritofmusic]

As you like the Zu speakers, you will like the Zen Mini Dynamic playing. As Zu is sensitive for harshness, the external PSU is a must, as this PSU changes the performance more close to Zen.

Zen has only LAN and USB outputs. So no solution for a set up with just a CD player or older DAC.

Zen mini has additional SPDIF (RCA) and a simple analog output.

The SPDIF output helps a lot, if you like to continue using an older DAC.

Using SPDIF will not allow to listen to DSD files, USB and LAN will support DSD.

Please do not safe money in buying too small HD capacity.
4TB (around 6000 album) is a good size to start.
You need a minimum of filled storage to enjoy programs like Roon.


If you enjoy streaming, you can go to Zenith or even further, the investment in Zen mini is safe, as you can use Zen mini still as external NAS to extend the available storage capacity.

Thank you Shakti. I'm looking at a $350 r2r dac to go with it.

 

[howiebrou]

there are many companies having comparable products, too much to try all of them.

I agree 100% however there aren’t a lot of choices if you want a server that can run Roon Core AND hold > 4TB SSD internally AND be < 10k!

 

[christoph]

By the way have you looked at the LDMS servers? They can hold multiple 4TB SSDs and they have models that mirror the Innuous models quite closely AND they run Roon Core too.

https://www.lucasaudiolab.com/

The LDMS servers are absolutely excellent sounding with even better service, what is very important if you live far away and are maybe not too computer savvy

 

[shakti]

Since some days I am using the new Roon 1.7 and I am very happy with the increased performance.
My music files storage is close to 12TB, splitter into 3x 4TB areas. The music library contains close to 14.000 album and the new Roon makes the search much more fluent than the former release.
The new funktion "most played" seems to know some records , I did not heard before, but the Roon crowd did, so I enjoy the new point of view into my own library.

The wireworld Gold Starlight LAN cable is now added to all data storage devices and as LAN cable from wall to the Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch.

The difference was easy audible. I also tried the Gold Starlight LAN cable between the Innuos server and the Nyquist, but I do still prefer the Kharma or CAD USB cables (no final decision yet).

Having the increase in performancee in mind, I should try to use in this critical position the Wirworld Platinum Starlight LAN cable.

On the other hand, I already ordered the Innuos Phoenix USB device (clock and PSU). Cannot wait, that the Phoenix starts shipping, as I believe, that this will become a major update for me.

 

[bmichels]

Shakti, You liked the W20, so why don't you consider the new W20SE which I heard bring a substancial sound improvement over the W20 ?

Also, have you considered the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, which, as opposed to the original SGM2018 do NOT upsample and do not use HQ Player ?


( I have W20, and as upgrade I hesitate between the W20SE or, if I want ROON CORE, I will consider the Playback Design MPT-8 (with the optional Roon core module) or even the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme )

 

[shakti]

Shakti, You liked the W20, so why don't you consider the new W20SE which I heard bring a substancial sound improvement over the W20 ?

Also, have you considered the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, which, as opposed to the original SGM2018 do NOT upsample and do not use HQ Player ?


( I have W20, and as upgrade I hesitate between the W20SE or, if I want ROON CORE, I will consider the Playback Design MPT-8 (with the optional Roon core module) or even the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme )

All three mentioned Music Servers will be better than the Innuos Zenith MKIII, if better as Innuos Statement, I do not know. But all of them are three times the price of the Zenith.

As analog is my main source, I try to get the best out of my investment and to find a digital set up, which is satisfying, most close to the "best" but in relationship to the best more easy affordable.

Very often the second best is very close to the best, but price wise more close to the lower end than to the top end. This logic does suit my available budget as well. And does fortunately not compromise my fun to search for the best...compromise

 

[IanG-UK]

Just MHO, but I find such behavior unacceptable - retail prices of any high-end equipment should be known to the public. I think it is even mandatory nowadays in Europe - if you advertise or sell anything you are supposed to have an accessible price list, according to the Price Marking Order 2004.

A good discipline is to buy from no manufacturer/distributor/retailer without a published price list nor to buy any product via a conventional route where you can find it elsewhere regularly discounted by 25% or more. i good means of eliminating a high proportion of the misbehavers.

 

[Reinhard]

The output Trafo is part of the main design, so included in the recommend retail price calculation.

There are no Output transformers in the Nyquist. The Lundahls are used for DA Conversion.
Output stage is tube/Transistor hybrid.

 

[shakti]

Today UPS came and presented to me the

Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker

http://www.innuos.com/uploads/cms/docs/Innuos_PhoenixUSB_webFlyer.pdf

It took some weeks after the presentation on the fair, that Innuos was able to run the production, but finally the Phoenix arrived prior Christmas

Currently I am using the Innuos Zenith MKIII music server (as Roon Core) and tried the Innuos Statement.
The Statement was clearly better that Zenith, but not equivalent to 10k on cost (with 4TB ssd) .
At least for me and my budget.

During on of the fairs I attended, Innuos presented the Phoenix and explained, that this unit will close the gap between Zenith and Statement, even being more close to the Statement performance.

The fair presentation was promissing, so I ordered.

Innuos is describing the Phoenix in the following way:

• The usB chip regenerating the signal contains no switching regulators. All 3 independent voltages to the chip originate from an independent linear power supply with further regulation provided by 3 sets of LT3045 regulators.
• · The use of a 3ppb OCXO clock running directly at 24MHz and connected via a board track just a couple of inches away from the usB chip. Therefore, no precision is lost within cables and connectors, as is the case when using an external master 10MHz clock with an additional 24MHz clock generator.
• · Two independent statement-level linear power supplies, one dedicated to the OCXO clock and the other used for powering the usB chip/5V usB line.

Installing the Phoenix was quickly done, using the Ridge Street Audio USB cable between Zenith and Phoenix and the Kharma USB cable between Phoenix and Nyquist II DAC.

I listened to the following track:

The positive effect of the Phoenix was obvious, the room became deeper, the baseline more natural and better integrated in the room, more air around the instrument.

The main voice and the second voice in the mix were more easy to identify and to follow up.

Tonal balance is now more on the slightly darker side, a little softer, many would say : "more analogue"
Like I know it from missing digital artifacts , everybody with the knowledge of using a "jitter killer" couple of years ago, knows the effect.

As with all gear, the Phoenix reacts on placement. Currently Ceraballs (like little Stillpoints) are used on an Ensemble Honyplate base. To give some weight (and quietness) a little Artesania weight is added to the top plate.

Can't wait, the the Phoenix gets fully burned in.

...and as I know, the question will come.

I cannot compare to the Statement, as this is too long ago and I changed the Preamp in the meantime.

 

[Fohlenfan]

Dear Jürgen, funny where my trade in is gettin you to. Nice to read about your journey all the time. I enjoy the TechDas so much. Stay in Music. All the best.

 

[shakti]

Last weekend I continued my Digital Story, adding some better powersupplies to my digital gear:

Keces P3 : SIlent Angel Bonn N8 Switch
Keces P8: Fritz 7490 Router & Bonn N8 Switch


http://www.kecesaudio.com

The effect was a clear step forward in regard of precise staging and some more details.

The standard DC cables supplied from Keces are ok, but the better is the better, so I tried out various other DC cables.

As not many High End cable manufacturers do offer this cables, I had to look around and bought finally some here:

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/list-dc.html

and here.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/recherche?search_query=dc+cable


The effect of the DC cables is significant as well!

One of my Hifi buddies does build PSU at his own as a serious DIY project.
So I know, it is possible to outperform even the Keces P8.

But I like to use at home legal stuff with European CE approval.

The Keces P3/P8 is a very good start to improve / exchange the standard wall PSU of the manufacturers,
Hearing the difference (with better DC cables) the investment is relativ cheap

But looking forward to find even better (legal) 230v AC to 5v, 12v, 24v DC PSU in the future.

(my set up: Router to Bonn N8 switch to inWall LAN wiring. LAN wall outlet to Bonn N8 switch to Musicserver and NAS)