Single Driver Thoughts?

[L3RD]

And such a good price too @$4000 ! Very interesting as I was quite keen on the Cubes.
Can you tell is more about the Lii, have you heard them yourself Audio_karma.

Here's the thing, audio is always a compromise, and everyone has different preferences and priorities. That said, wizzer cones reduce accuracy, a good thing for some, bad for others. They also greatly increase the sweet spot, again, for some this compensates for the slightly lower resolution, some just like less resolution. Having slammed wizzer based drivers resolution, I should say that they'll still probably blow away the resolution of most other cone based speakers. It's always a balancing act.

 

[Audio_Karma]

And such a good price too @$4000 ! Very interesting as I was quite keen on the Cubes.
Can you tell is more about the Lii, have you heard them yourself Audio_karma.

Sorry No I have not heard the Lii Audio speakers yet but if I was looking for single driver speakers I pick the all new Camerton Audio Binom 1.2's

 

[Atmasphere]

I should say that they'll still probably blow away the resolution of most other cone based speakers. It's always a balancing act.

Its hard for them to keep up with a good compression style tweeter; not as smooth and not as extended. I'm always open to finding I'm wrong about that.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Its hard for them to keep up with a good compression style tweeter; not as smooth and not as extended. I'm always open to finding I'm wrong about that.

Hi,

Have you heard AER BD3,4,5 at all? Their treble performance is probably their greatest strength. If anything I prefer the lower mid of a PM4A. The absence of crossover for the treble provides a seamless transition that can often not be so easily found with a compression driver and its high pass filter. Not saying it can’t be done - it certainly can.

 

[Atmasphere]

Hi,

Have you heard AER BD3,4,5 at all? Their treble performance is probably their greatest strength. If anything I prefer the lower mid of a PM4A. The absence of crossover for the treble provides a seamless transition that can often not be so easily found with a compression driver and its high pass filter. Not saying it can’t be done - it certainly can.

I've not- and would like to hear them.

But I can't sort out how it would deal with Doppler Effect distortion any better.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I've not- and would like to hear them.

But I can't sort out how it would deal with Doppler Effect distortion any better.

Rather than try to think about it academically, it really is worth listening to. It does leave one scratching one’s head wondering how on earth it can sound so different to other 8” full rangers in this respect but is what it is.

 

[Atmasphere]

Rather than try to think about it academically, it really is worth listening to. It does leave one scratching one’s head wondering how on earth it can sound so different to other 8” full rangers in this respect but is what it is.

Its not academic- I hear this problem with every 'full range' driver I've heard. Take the bass excursion off the cone and the speaker sounds instantly more transparent.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Its not academic- I hear this problem with every 'full range' driver I've heard. Take the bass excursion off the cone and the speaker sounds instantly more transparent.

Okay no problem. Imho the Pnoe, set up appropriately, makes the Classic Audio T1.5 sound like a toy but each to their own. Caveat only heard Classic Audio in show conditions.

 

[Atmasphere]

Okay no problem. Imho the Pnoe, set up appropriately, makes the Classic Audio T1.5 sound like a toy but each to their own. Caveat only heard Classic Audio in show conditions.

I own T-3s with field coils and I can only recall two times that we had sound at a show that really demonstrated what the speaker could do. I have a number of LPs and CDs I recorded myself so I know how they are supposed to sound. I find that really helpful as a reference!

Here in town in more controlled circumstances I've heard Lowthers, PHY, Tangband and Voxitive. It took our class D amp to tame the resonance in the Voxitive (field coil with wood cone) and at that point IMO it was the best of the lot. But without some way to get the bass excursion off of the driver it simply was not as transparent or convincing as my CALs using the same amp and preamp.

I'm convinced that any 'full range' driver has to be used with some kind of tweeter- even if the tweeter is rear firing just to improve off-axis response - and you'll need a subwoofer. But if you leave the bass excursion on the 'full range' driver you simply won't get the best out of it. I know how 'full range' driver folks find crossovers aberrant; perhaps the amp can be treated to roll off the bass. That might really pay off- smaller caps in amplifiers have less problems (potentially could be smoother and more transparent); if you are using a tube amp there is a benefit to the output transformer as well, plus no subsonic noise to gobble up amplifier power.

If I were to set up a full range driver that's how I would do it anyway.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Okay so we went a different direction. I auditioned a pair of Sonner Audio Legato Unum. These are some of the best sounding monitors I have ever owned (Sonus faber (Olympica, Sonetto) , KEF, (R), Dynaudio) and they are real close to sounding like a single driver. Love stand mounts and these sound fantastic.

 

[matakana]

Okay so we went a different direction. I auditioned a pair of Sonner Audio Legato Unum. These are some of the best sounding monitors I have ever owned (Sonus faber (Olympica, Sonetto) , KEF, (R), Dynaudio) and they are real close to sounding like a single driver. Love stand mounts and these sound fantastic.

View attachment 93682

A spare set of KT 170 , very wise too !

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I own T-3s with field coils and I can only recall two times that we had sound at a show that really demonstrated what the speaker could do. I have a number of LPs and CDs I recorded myself so I know how they are supposed to sound. I find that really helpful as a reference!

Here in town in more controlled circumstances I've heard Lowthers, PHY, Tangband and Voxitive. It took our class D amp to tame the resonance in the Voxitive (field coil with wood cone) and at that point IMO it was the best of the lot. But without some way to get the bass excursion off of the driver it simply was not as transparent or convincing as my CALs using the same amp and preamp.

I'm convinced that any 'full range' driver has to be used with some kind of tweeter- even if the tweeter is rear firing just to improve off-axis response - and you'll need a subwoofer. But if you leave the bass excursion on the 'full range' driver you simply won't get the best out of it. I know how 'full range' driver folks find crossovers aberrant; perhaps the amp can be treated to roll off the bass. That might really pay off- smaller caps in amplifiers have less problems (potentially could be smoother and more transparent); if you are using a tube amp there is a benefit to the output transformer as well, plus no subsonic noise to gobble up amplifier power.

If I were to set up a full range driver that's how I would do it anyway.

Hi Ralph,

Do agree with much of what you have written. I personally use mine in a 2 way. My low end is augmented with 4x15” woofers per side actively driven in a slot loaded open baffle type arrangement. They come in around 110hz (4th order LR)
I am not in the total aversion to crossover camp - indeed I provide a protective high pass for my front loaded horn. In terms of the tweeter augmentation, I would agree with both the Lowther and Phy drivers (I got both). It isn’t needed with my AERs though.

Best.

 

[Audio_Karma]

Okay so we went a different direction. I auditioned a pair of Sonner Audio Legato Unum. These are some of the best sounding monitors I have ever owned (Sonus faber (Olympica, Sonetto) , KEF, (R), Dynaudio) and they are real close to sounding like a single driver. Love stand mounts and these sound fantastic.

View attachment 93682

The all new Qln Signature 5 Monitors might be the best on the market right now

AXPONA 2022 My Six Favorite Rooms - Positive Feedback

AXPONA 2022 - My Six Favorite Rooms

www.positive-feedback.com

https://www.parttimeaudiophile.com/...ama-integrated-and-qln-signature-axpona-2022/

 

[Republicoftexas69]

A spare set of KT 170 , very wise too !

Oh I have 2 Sets of KT150, KT120, KT88 and 3 sets of 12ax7 and 6922. most purchased before the gouging started.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

The all new Qln Signature 5 Monitors might be the best on the market right now

AXPONA 2022 My Six Favorite Rooms - Positive Feedback

AXPONA 2022 - My Six Favorite Rooms

www.positive-feedback.com

https://www.parttimeaudiophile.com/...ama-integrated-and-qln-signature-axpona-2022/

QLN is nice stuff I have a set of the Sonora and like them a lot.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

The all new Qln Signature 5 Monitors might be the best on the market right now

AXPONA 2022 My Six Favorite Rooms - Positive Feedback

AXPONA 2022 - My Six Favorite Rooms

www.positive-feedback.com

https://www.parttimeaudiophile.com/...ama-integrated-and-qln-signature-axpona-2022/

At $18K they will never be in my home.

and the Qln Signature monitors ($18,000/pair)

 

[spiritofmusic]

I own T-3s with field coils and I can only recall two times that we had sound at a show that really demonstrated what the speaker could do. I have a number of LPs and CDs I recorded myself so I know how they are supposed to sound. I find that really helpful as a reference!

Here in town in more controlled circumstances I've heard Lowthers, PHY, Tangband and Voxitive. It took our class D amp to tame the resonance in the Voxitive (field coil with wood cone) and at that point IMO it was the best of the lot. But without some way to get the bass excursion off of the driver it simply was not as transparent or convincing as my CALs using the same amp and preamp.

I'm convinced that any 'full range' driver has to be used with some kind of tweeter- even if the tweeter is rear firing just to improve off-axis response - and you'll need a subwoofer. But if you leave the bass excursion on the 'full range' driver you simply won't get the best out of it. I know how 'full range' driver folks find crossovers aberrant; perhaps the amp can be treated to roll off the bass. That might really pay off- smaller caps in amplifiers have less problems (potentially could be smoother and more transparent); if you are using a tube amp there is a benefit to the output transformer as well, plus no subsonic noise to gobble up amplifier power.

If I were to set up a full range driver that's how I would do it anyway.

Kinda how Sean Casey of Zu thinks with the totl Definitions range. His soon to be released Definitions 6 runs the full range drivers from 30-35Hz to 11-12kHz, Eminence Lab-12 sub below, Radian 950 supertweeter above.

 

[dcathro]

Kinda how Sean Casey of Zu thinks with the totl Definitions range. His soon to be released Definitions 6 runs the full range drivers from 30-35Hz to 11-12kHz, Eminence Lab-12 sub below, Radian 950 supertweeter above.

Not sure that 30Hz can be considered as similar to the Classic Audio approach where the 15" bass will cross over somewhere around 500Hz. The full range Zu is being asked to do a lot at both ends.

I am using a Supravox 8" widebander in conjunction with a 15" bass and 1.5" tweeter. I am using 1st order xover slopes at 200Hz and 5KHz. This seems to be a reasonable compromise.

 

[L3RD]

Its hard for them to keep up with a good compression style tweeter; not as smooth and not as extended. I'm always open to finding I'm wrong about that.

Well, you're not wrong, but the question is, does it matter? If you listen to computer generated music, it probably will. Violins can get above 15KHz, perhaps on occasion to 18KHz. So, if it cannot get there without excessive drop off, it matters assuming that you can hear frequencies that high. My hearing is tested annually, but I am not sure that the test goes that high, so I don't know for a fact that I am capable of hearing that range. I certainly can here violins, but beyond that I'm not sure. Add to that that at least older Vandersteens sound like my Hiquphon tweeters in my 2 smaller speakers with blankets over the tweeters and I wonder if everyone wants to hear those frequencies. Music is quite subjective and personal. I used to use Acoustats which tilted up a dB or so in the highest frequencies. There are no perfect drivers that I am aware of. So, for some, it may be an issue, but very little music lives above 15KHz anyway. YMMV

 

[sbo6]

Single driver speakers can deliver something special at lower volumes by avoiding a crossover or with a limited xover implementations. However, crossover, speaker and cabinet design has come along a long way especially with computers and high - tech manufacturing and new materials making deleterious effects from xovers significantly less than years past. That, coupled with the limitation of trying to deliver ~9 octaves from 1 driver makes single drivers not a viable choice IMO especially in moderate to larger rooms.