Soulution 701 monoblocks and 711 stereo amplifier

[microstrip]

Wrong assumption.

The thread is about Soulution, yet, at each opportunity many find a way to veer it into a DarTzeel one.. In other threads this would have been called "trolling", "hijacking" or even "crapping" .. Since Soulution adopts very different approach from the audiophile orthodoxy, namely switching power supplies and generous use of (local) Feedback, this seems to be accepted as fair game ... Reminds of some Magico threads in which all efforts is put forth to discredit the brand or their products .. In spite of this Magico is thriving and has become one of the most respected speakers in High End Audio.Many are acquiring them, replacing the former automatic goto brand. I would add that I have heard from people with taste similar to mine that the Soulution/Magico pairings are really great sounding affairs. Will hear such at a friend in NY very soon. (Early Jan 2015)

OK.

Although my experience was only at several shows, considering what I heard I easily understand the opinions of people and see this drift as a natural regional conflict between two very expensive brands from Switzerland - Geneve versus Zurich. As I know these towns reasonably well, I can be tempted to think that the sound quality of both brands reflect the personality of their inhabitants - French Switzerland versus German Switzerland.

Anyway nice to know you appreciate the technicalities and subjectivities of Soulution. When people are prepared to accept that an audio amplifier must have a bandwidth of 2MHz/-3dB they surely have an open mind!

BTW, considering what I heard and read my only opinion in these matters is that Soulution equipment needs a lot of care in pairing and fine tuning.

 

[Alpinist]

I agree. The more a piece of gear is bashed is when in reality it probably sounds great.

I couldn't be happier with my Soulution 501's. I love the transparency, tonal purity, speed, dynamics and bass control of these amps. After experiencing Soulution's "inferior" SMPS, I will never go back to amps with a large torroidal transformer.

 

[microstrip]

And the CH is not expensive? Or is it inexpensive like Dartzeel. Never heard of Zellatrons. I take it all these are European manufactured products?

Yes. All of them are very expensive European brands.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Wrong assumption.

The thread is about Soulution, yet, at each opportunity many find a way to veer it into a DarTzeel one.. In other threads this would have been called "trolling", "hijacking" or even "crapping" .. Since Soulution adopts very different approach from the audiophile orthodoxy, namely switching power supplies and generous use of (local) Feedback, this seems to be accepted as fair game ... Reminds of some Magico threads in which all efforts is put forth to discredit the brand or their products .. In spite of this Magico is thriving and has become one of the most respected speakers in High End Audio.Many are acquiring them, replacing the former automatic goto brand. I would add that I have heard from people with taste similar to mine that the Soulution/Magico pairings are really great sounding affairs. Will hear such at a friend in NY very soon. (Early Jan 2015)

I think any thread about solid state amps aspiring to be musical and world class will involve darTZeel, whether you like it or not. it's a respected standard. and those comments seem to only involve the dart 108 100 watt stereo amp.....of which many have experience with.

I only joined the thread and mentioned darTZeel as a response to a challenge directed at me by name so painting any darTZeel mention with your "trolling" brush is wrong.

 

[Alpinist]

I think any thread about solid state amps aspiring to be musical and world class will involve darTZeel, whether you like it or not. it's a respected standard. and those comments seem to only involve the dart 108 100 watt stereo amp.....of which many have experience with.

I only joined the thread and mentioned darTZeel as a response to a challenge directed at me by name so painting any darTZeel mention with your "trolling" brush is wrong.

I had the opportunity to audition the darTZeel NHB-108B with the Esoteric K-01 and Raidho D3 and found it to be a very impressive amplifier. In my opinion, I would say it is one of the best Class AB amplifiers I have heard. It had a natural warmth and musicality reminiscent of the best Class A amplifiers but with much better dynamics and bass control. This should not be too surprising as the first 20 watts are produced in Class A. However, the switchover from Class A is handled quite seamlessly, in fact, I couldn't hear it at all. A very fine amplifier.

 

[awsmone]

Many of the complaints about soulution, sound similar to previous complaints about very low distortion amplifiers such as Halcro

Similarily, they also used SMPS

Like all electronic implentations there are advantages and disadvatages of each approach

Ultimately though, in this hobby its all about the sound.....

But

And this is the but

Is the reason, there is, it would seem, so much audiophile controversy about these products, a direct result of their implentation, or their low distortion

This seems to me to be the crux of the issue
Either

wow their distortion is so low, I can hear whats going on

Or oh no they sound terrible, what are they doing with all this feedback and smps

This seems to be the issue

Frankly, I am not clear what is right

My concern is that recording/playback process "bleaches" out some of the natural timbral life and timing in music

And a truly transparent, low distortion component shows this bleaching in all its "glory"
As a result many audiophile hunt for "colouring" solutions to put some life back in playback... and I am not saying this is "wrong" just a natural reaction to the deficiencies in what they are hearing


Having said that

I thought the soulution very neutral fleshed out and timbrally accurate with great dynamics in an all soulution front end, both vinyl and digital

I noted a problem with the initial run of 501, and my understanding is this has been corrected

I think Dartzeel and soulution are excellent comparators

Both high quality

Both striving to get the most out of solid state

And taking completely opposite approaches simpliciity versus, complexity

And the outcomes I think are probably predictable

Purity, with some idiosyncrasity versus stability with some questions over authenticity

I think the paradigm since Kondo and others has been low NFB as the problems it throws up are worse than the things it solves

However, it has long been known that high bandwidth and very fast circuits with inherently low levels of high order distortion may mean we can create super low distortion circuits

We seem to be on the brink with Soulution and N core etc

The Big question is if we make a distortionless circuit will anyone like the sound?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard them a couple of times both the small monos as well as the big poweramp , in both cases the solution pre was used , i am merely in the " another solid state /dry /not very special sounding camp" , i do think they would benefit a lot when used with another pre amp .
They have a character which resembles spectral a bit to my ears.
At dealers you dont see mix and match a lot , mostly one productline is used incl the pre amp and power amp .
I ve heard Halcro with the " warm ?" sounding ML 32 and its one of the best sounds ive heard to date , that might have not been the case when their DM 10 pre amp was used at that time.
Clean neutral powerfull SS is plentyfull in a way , but a preamp takes it to the next level.... imo

 

[awsmone]

i guess this is my point

is it the amp

or

are we hearing what the recording really sounds like ?

and the ml32 "spruced" the sound up a bit more towards what we think it should be???

 

[andromedaaudio]

I don 't know
The thing that would give the various amplifier designers more credibilty at shows or / at during design is when they organize something like this : comparing reproduced versus the real thing in the same room, but that is quite a costly effort and some may even have done that , but what is exactly wrong with MY FY ? i enjoy it a lot .
This hobby is high end audio , not high fidelity audio , problem is i think that in ampflier design as well as loudspeaker design some things are not measurable , you cant measure the fact that a certain amp or loudspeaker sounds involving and another one doesnt , thats probably where taste comes into play and the designers hand

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/zanden/zanden.html

It also states powercords do matter , well i cant recall having said anything negative about them apart from cookers

 

[awsmone]

Exactly it is about enjoyment

So if manufacturers are trying for signal purity

Will we like it ?

Having said that as technology and fidelity has improved over the years most newer equipment appears more enjoyable as well as closer to fidelity though there would appear a margin still

There are some notable exceptions with classic horns quad speakers certain valve amps rim drive turntables

So I think it begs the question are Soulution close or an experimental dead end ?

 

[FrantzM]

I think any thread about solid state amps aspiring to be musical and world class will involve darTZeel, whether you like it or not. it's a respected standard. and those comments seem to only involve the dart 108 100 watt stereo amp.....of which many have experience with.

I only joined the thread and mentioned darTZeel as a response to a challenge directed at me by name so painting any darTZeel mention with your "trolling" brush is wrong.

Mike

I don't mind an inference to a brand. The notion of "respected standard" is however your point of view, your opinion. You hold their products in high esteem and for good reasons in my opinion , this doesn't make of them a "standard". Same for Spectral. Butrmester ,Audio Research,Lamm ,etc.. They all are well reviewed and all have a solid reputation. they do not define a "respected standard".

I do not consider such output "trolling" BTW, I do point however that such constant mentions of a different (competitive) brand within a thread would have been frowned upon if the thread was about a popular manufacturer. Say a Conrad Johnson or Audio Research, etc, the kind who tend to adhere to audiophile orthodoxy.

 

[caesar]

Wrong assumption.

The thread is about Soulution, yet, at each opportunity many find a way to veer it into a DarTzeel one.. In other threads this would have been called "trolling", "hijacking" or even "crapping" .. Since Soulution adopts very different approach from the audiophile orthodoxy, namely switching power supplies and generous use of (local) Feedback, this seems to be accepted as fair game ... Reminds of some Magico threads in which all efforts is put forth to discredit the brand or their products .. In spite of this Magico is thriving and has become one of the most respected speakers in High End Audio.Many are acquiring them, replacing the former automatic goto brand. I would add that I have heard from people with taste similar to mine that the Soulution/Magico pairings are really great sounding affairs. Will hear such at a friend in NY very soon. (Early Jan 2015)

Frantz, as you mention, there are many brands out there that appeal to folks for many reasons - sonic differences, technological prowess, perceived engineering skills/ pedigree of designers, looks (and is there a better looking amp on the planet than Soulution 7 series? - And yes, I know, many find it plain and boring), etc., and combination of these.

And yet when folks who passionately abhor analytic sounding gear, as they are free to do, while others are calling the best, they will let you know about it. It is a hobby that stirs passions, after all.

Also, mind you, both Magico and Soulution have released recent models that are less analytic than what they have been producing just a few years ago. Seems like Magico is moving away from their original voicing of the Q, and the new Soulution is a lot more dynamic and richer (although you wouldn't mistake it for tube gear).

 

[thedudeabides]

I only joined the thread and mentioned darTZeel as a response to a challenge directed at me by name[/I]

With all due respect, I didn't challenge anyone but merely stated that you and other Dart owners may disagree with someone who holds a contrarion view of the Darts.

Challenge is word I would avoid within the context of this thread since all opinions are, by nature, subjective.

Best.

 

[microstrip]

Mike

I don't mind an inference to a brand. The notion of "respected standard" is however your point of view, your opinion.(...)

The appearance of the DartZeel NHB108 more than 10 years ago and the general acceptance of its great sound quality, even by those who prefer other brands sound signatures, assures its respectability. At that time, this amplifier managed to sound very different from the main solid state trend, and became a milestone due to its quality and also its popularity.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

With all due respect, I didn't challenge anyone but merely stated that you and other Dart owners may disagree with someone who holds a contrarion view of the Darts.

Challenge is word I would avoid within the context of this thread since all opinions are, by nature, subjective.

Best.

I did not mean to put any negative connotation to my choice of the word 'challenge'....sorry. maybe I should have used 'call-out'. in any case it was on some level a request for comment. my point was only that I did not bring up darTZeel in the thread or jump in of my own self.