Soulution 701 monoblocks and 711 stereo amplifier

[south]

+1

I know a picture is worth a 1000 words but this is beyond ridiculous. Opus appears to be the only person in the world who knows how to design audio equipment. Everyone else is an idiot.

Rather than passing judgement, it might be better to ask questions.

Hi

I have a 710/720 pre-power and it is extremely good. They are very precise, transparent and controlled, and sound much more powerful than their nominal 125 watts. The way they reveal the differences between the records is unique. The best, as Valin claimed a few years ago? I do not pretend that, but they are certainly among the best amplification I have heard. I would say they belong to the same "family" as Spectral, meaning they are very neutral and not on the warm side. However I had Spectral for a few years and, although they are very good and much less expensive than the competition, I found them fatiguing after some time. Soulution is much better.
As an example of a different sound (or "family"), I heard the small DartZeel 108. They are certainly warmer than Soulution but I found them much less resolving, transparent and controlling than the 710.
Soulution's reputation seems to have been affected by the excitement of Valin and by their bold, perhaps naive, claim that they had solved the feedback issue. I have no technical knowledge, but it seems that when Hammer said that there was a solution for the negative feedback he was instantly bashed. I do not know how many people actually heard a Soulution system before attacking them. The fact that it is a parallel activity of an industrial copmpany, Spemot, did not help either. But there are many approaches to the high end as a business and not all have to rely on the inventor/engineer working alone in a garage, although I recognise that many of the most interesting companies started that way.
As for the new SM power supply I could not find a single report of anyone that had actually heard the 701/711 yet. There are a number of well regarded amplifiers that use SMPS (Devialet, Rowland, Mark Levinson, the Anthem that impressed Jeff Fritz recently). I am a bit suspicious about a technology whose main advantage seems to be the fact that it is lighter and with less power needs than the traditional supplies. But Soulution is very technicaly minded so I will give them the benefit of doubt. I briefly heard the 500 series mono amps, which where their first products with SMPS and they were good, although not in the same league of the 710. Lets wait and listen.

 

[wizard]

I heard the Soulution 701 at MOC with Focal.

The sound now was more smooth - I could listen for a longer time now than before.

 

[FrantzM]

Very interesting internal pics - thanks wizard!

Looks like a complete mess design-wise. 4 off-the-shelf SMPSU blocks and six off-the-shelf toroids and no signs of RF filtering except two low inductance toroidal CM chokes. The huge caps under the board will have SRFs too low to filter out the switching noise of the PSUs. Its no surprise to me that many don't like the sound...

Any reason why you believe these are off-the-shelf parts?


alexandre

Sure - because when custom designed we'd reduce the complexity and hence number of parts to better optimize the design. So for example rather than six off-the-shelf toroids I'd reduce that to a single one with multiple secondary windings. Same for using 4 SMPSU 'bricks' rather than a single one.

Opus

You may have to admit this isn't a good answer. Minimalism in anything is one of many design philosophies. A simpler (minimalist?) design is not automatically a better sounding one (another debate in itself, what sounds good to yo may not to me and many others as you aptly pointed still, looking at some pictures and infering from that of the quality of the design is to me a stretch. More needs to be known about the balance of components, their specifications and the design choices, constraints and compromises.

I have no bone in Soulution I have heard the big ones and found them excellent. My take.

I find it nonetheless a stretch that based on a few pictures and not even the schematics one can infer so much on their sound and parts quality ....

 

[asiufy]

Sure - because when custom designed we'd reduce the complexity and hence number of parts to better optimize the design. So for example rather than six off-the-shelf toroids I'd reduce that to a single one with multiple secondary windings. Same for using 4 SMPSU 'bricks' rather than a single one.

Still, that's an assumption, right? I mean, they COULD design 4 individual SMPSUs of their own, if that was their project decision, right?
Same for the toroids, no? I mean, some companies rely on big honkin' toroids, some prefer fewer smaller ones. What I'd like to know is why choosing one over the other would imply the use of off-the-shelf parts?

And for the record, I don't like the sound of the Soulution amps I've heard (big 700 monos). My darTZeel 108 was considerably better than them, with more weight, presence, and naturalness. The 700s sound too dry. A bass drum simply does not sound like a bass drum. I attribute this characteristic to the use of feedback all over this thing. So, feedback+SMPSU, and you can guess the 701 is not high on my list

To be fair, the 720 preamp that I've heard, at home, was quite good, a little better than my darTZeel 18NS even.


alexandre

 

[opus111]

Still, that's an assumption, right? I mean, they COULD design 4 individual SMPSUs of their own, if that was their project decision, right?

Sure, its quite possible. I just can't think of a good reason to do that, and why make their designs look just like off the shelf ones (fans included)? But I'm open to people coming up with justifications for doing that - given that its much more of an engineering challenge to make 4 supplies work in tandem. So why make a rod for one's own back?

Same for the toroids, no? I mean, some companies rely on big honkin' toroids, some prefer fewer smaller ones.

Again no justification to use six smaller ones, given the engineering drawbacks, unless they're constrained by what's available off the shelf. But as for the SMPSUs, I'm open to suggestions.

And for the record, I don't like the sound of the Soulution amps I've heard (big 700 monos). My darTZeel 108 was considerably better than them, with more weight, presence, and naturalness. The 700s sound too dry. A bass drum simply does not sound like a bass drum. I attribute this characteristic to the use of feedback all over this thing. So, feedback+SMPSU, and you can guess the 701 is not high on my list

Curious as to why its down to feedback for you? And not for example having a very noisy power supply?

I had a look at the FFT plots on their website - there's apparently more than 20dB noise floor modulation between a 50W sine wave output and no signal at all. I think that alone would be enough to soften the bass to an appreciable degree.

 

[opus111]

I find it nonetheless a stretch that based on a few pictures and not even the schematics one can infer so much on their sound and parts quality ....

I have no need to infer about the sound - dallasjustice and asiufy have listened and given their view. I agree it would be a big stretch to go from a few pics to how they sound. I'm just remarking on what seem to me to be odd engineering decisions. By all means disagree with my take, that's what forums are for. But so far the disagreements haven't been engineering based ones here which I find quite amusing. WTG Myles for sharing your perceptions, excellent entertainment value.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I have no need to infer about the sound - dallasjustice and asiufy have listened and given their view. I agree it would be a big stretch to go from a few pics to how they sound. I'm just remarking on what seem to me to be odd engineering decisions. By all means disagree with my take, that's what forums are for. But so far the disagreements haven't been engineering based ones here which I find quite amusing. WTG Myles for sharing your perceptions, excellent entertainment value.

I just love how people can tell how something sounds from a picture. No need to listen.

 

[south]

Sure, its quite possible. I just can't think of a good reason to do that, and why make their designs look just like off the shelf ones (fans included)? But I'm open to people coming up with justifications for doing that - given that its much more of an engineering challenge to make 4 supplies work in tandem. So why make a rod for one's own back?



Again no justification to use six smaller ones, given the engineering drawbacks, unless they're constrained by what's available off the shelf. But as for the SMPSUs, I'm open to suggestions.




Curious as to why its down to feedback for you? And not for example having a very noisy power supply?

I had a look at the FFT plots on their website - there's apparently more than 20dB noise floor modulation between a 50W sine wave output and no signal at all. I think that alone would be enough to soften the bass to an appreciable degree.

Opus,

One thing I can guarantee about Soulution: bass is certainly not softened. It is up there with I heard from old Krell amps. Whether or not what I hear is compatible with what you see in the FFT plots is a different matter.

 

[opus111]

Opus,

One thing I can guarantee about Soulution: bass is certainly not softened. It is up there with I heard from old Krell amps.

So how to reconcile this with what asiufy said about the dTZ having more weight, naturalness and presence?

Whether or not what I hear is compatible with what you see in the FFT plots is a different matter.

Its quite possible that the change (or part of the change) in the noise level is down to having different analyser settings between the different measurements. So I'm not resting much on this observation. Its anomalous though.

 

[defride]

So how to reconcile this with what asiufy said about the dTZ having more weight, naturalness and presence?

Different system

 

[south]

So how to reconcile this with what asiufy said about the dTZ having more weight, naturalness and presence?

Its quite possible that the change (or part of the change) in the noise level is down to having different analyser settings between the different measurements. So I'm not resting much on this observation. Its anomalous though.

Opus,

Rather difficult to reconcile with something I have not experienced. The Soulution has certainly more weight and presence than dTz 108 I heard. But, as said in the other reply to your post, we are talking about different systems.

 

[asiufy]

I've heard both amps on the same system, Magico Q7 and Soulution 720 preamp. The Soulution were using MIT cables, the 108 was on Synergistic.
With the big Soulution monos, bass drums sounded like cardboard. The 108 brought the big sound back. For the record, I was listening Led Zeppelin's "All of my love", so you all can hear what bass drum I'm talking about.
The 700 is indeed more transparent, with more pinpoint accuracy. But it loses in just about every other aspect to the 108.
No amp is perfect, and this situation proves it. Some people might not care for the dimished impact on rock music, with the Soulution, as it's impressive enough with classical and jazz. And if they value sheer accuracy, the Soulution would indeed be their best option, between the two amps.



alexandre

 

[NorthStar]

Interesting thread, interesting comments. ...I wish I knew more about these amps; but I still like to read and learn from what others have to say about them.

 

[Roysen]

The best sound I ever heard was with a pair of Rockport Technologies Altair, Soulutoion 700, Soulution 720 and Soulution 530. Nothing I have ever heard comes close. So I guess all the banter in this thread really comes down to personal taste. It is wrong to make a personal taste sound like an objective truth.

 

[owen]

I don't think Cyril is an engineer, or at least THE engineer at Soulution. Apparently, the actual lead engineer left the company, and there's a new one in. Thus, SMPS.
And, IMO, the Soulution amps sound bland and gimicky. All that negative feedback is there, you can almost hear it
I found them to sound pretty much like a Halcro of years past.

alexandre

Really, comparing Soulution to Halcro? To quote a famous athlete from several years back "you cannot be serious". Time to come clean. What is the real reason for the constant Soulution bashing?

 

[dallasjustice]

Really, comparing Soulution to Halcro? To quote a famous athlete from several years back "you cannot be serious". Time to come clean. What is the real reason for the constant Soulution bashing?

What the fox say?

I had a similar impression having owned the 710 and Dartzeel. I've heard them side by side in the same system. The 710 is more dynamic and can handle big orchestra with an iron fist. But the Dartzeel beats the 710 in every other category. I would say the 710 is more like an audio X-ray machine and the Dartzeel is more like a real music. But I think Krell smokes them both though.

 

[Jazzhead]

What the fox say?

I had a similar impression having owned the 710 and Dartzeel. I've heard them side by side in the same system. The 710 is more dynamic and can handle big orchestra with an iron fist. But the Dartzeel beats the 710 in every other category. I would say the 710 is more like an audio X-ray machine and the Dartzeel is more like a real music. But I think Krell smokes them both though.

Which Krell would that be ? I am well versed with the Evo 1 & 2 , big sounding , dynamic powerhouse . Illuminates the picture without sounding bright , not entirely natural in tone .

 

[asiufy]

What the fox say?

I had a similar impression having owned the 710 and Dartzeel. I've heard them side by side in the same system. The 710 is more dynamic and can handle big orchestra with an iron fist. But the Dartzeel beats the 710 in every other category. I would say the 710 is more like an audio X-ray machine and the Dartzeel is more like a real music. But I think Krell smokes them both though.

See, I do like the Krell over the Soulution, but I still prefer the darTZeel

owen,
No reason at all, I just wasn't impressed by the Soulution amps, either one of them I've heard. They reminded me of the Halcros, again, just my impression.
Is it so hard to understand people that just don't have the same opinion of things as you do?
I think Soulution gear is absurdly overrated, and while impressive at first, when faced with diverse genres of music, they fall apart easily. That's just my impression.


alexandre

 

[dallasjustice]

Which Krell would that be ? I am well versed with the Evo 1 & 2 , big sounding , dynamic powerhouse . Illuminates the picture without sounding bright , not entirely natural in tone .

900e

 

[microstrip]

What the fox say?

I had a similar impression having owned the 710 and Dartzeel. I've heard them side by side in the same system. The 710 is more dynamic and can handle big orchestra with an iron fist. But the Dartzeel beats the 710 in every other category. I would say the 710 is more like an audio X-ray machine and the Dartzeel is more like a real music. But I think Krell smokes them both though.

The choice will depend a lot on the speakers efficiency and our own preferences. IMHO if the speakers are efficient enough and have a well behaved impedance the Dartzeel can freeze the competition. Unfortunately my SoundLab's are just the opposite - they have an impedance curve that kills the Dartzeel.