Soundstage Reproduction and Scale: Does Speaker Size Matter?

[DasguteOhr]

Yes and now it is really easy to understand since they are Suesskind speakers. I heard them at Anamighty and superb staging and transparency to recordings

Anamighty Sound: Analog shootout – Zero Distortion

zero-distortion.org

joachim gerhard create a lot amazing speakers, audiopysic medea, virgo,sonics allegra and now süsskind . He is my reference in soundstaging. I would like to hear his new Surveyor Master.

P.S his new projects look at facebook site.

Joachim-Gerhard-Collection

Joachim-Gerhard-Collection. 2.083 Me gusta · 2 personas están hablando de esto. Die Kooperation zwischen ROSE-HANDWERK und dem Lautsprecherexperten Joachim Gerhard aus Brilon

es-la.facebook.com

 

[KeithR]

I went from 6' high Avant-garde Duo Mezzos to 3.5" high Boenicke W13's. I loved the W13's. They filled the room with a spacious, music friendly sound. Only one thing lacked for me -- verticality. While they filled my large room with ease, it was more of a magic trick than natural physics. The AG's projected vertical sound that seemed more real, because they were physically taller.

I now have 7' high Evolution Acoustics MM'7s. They project an effortless, natural scale that varies with the recording in a way I believe a much smaller scale speaker could never do.

Wil, did you find any driver disparity on the W13s?

 

[Alrainbow]

Personally I never experienced the "big mouth" phenomena. I am sure it's a thing. But no doubt a competent design can eliminate it. I am just saying.

?? sorry I don’t understand the term

 

[Gregadd]

?? sorry I don’t understand the term

[text omitted] :" ten foot tall Elvis" One reviewer opined that while he listened to the big Maggies the singers mouth was unnaturally large. I am paraphrasing of course. This appeared to be unique to line source speakers. Once it is out there everybody hears it.

 

[chuck]

Based on my auditioning experience I have found that I like tall loudspeakers, because I find that height contributes to realistic soundstage scale and a more authentic reproduction of the size and grandeur of a classical symphony orchestra. This is why I like tall systems like Evolution Acoustics MM7 and Rockport Arrakis and Wilson XVX and Gryphon Pendragon/Kodo and Von Schweikert Ultra 11 and YG XV, etc.

Agree completely.

 

[Alrainbow]

I’m not a designer and was told by two designers it’s a fact beyond mine
now I was told by moving them closer to the middle it can be minimized
I was also told how loud and how close one sits also affects this.
but flawed or not a line source to me is a real stage one that can allow for all plains to be heard in front of me
not just front to back or left to right but height

 

[microstrip]

[text omitted] :" ten foot tall Elvis" One reviewer opined that while he listened to the big Maggies the singers mouth was unnaturally large. I am paraphrasing of course. This appeared to be unique to line source speakers. Once it is out there everybody hears it.

Just playing Falla "El Amor Brujo" , directed by Josep Pons (Harmonia Mundi) to confirm it - I can assure you that the mouth of Ginesa Ortega is natural size played in the tall and large SoundLab's. Powerful, dramatic, but surely not "unnaturally large" .

 

[Ron Resnick]

[text omitted] :" ten foot tall Elvis" One reviewer opined that while he listened to the big Maggies the singers mouth was unnaturally large. I am paraphrasing of course. This appeared to be unique to line source speakers. Once it is out there everybody hears it.

Hmmm. I have not found this to be the case with line source speakers.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A post about how a small speaker is less able to generate the majesty and thunder of a big orchestra than is a large speaker is a different question than the soundstaging question I raised in the opening post. No one is suggesting that a phalanx of drivers cannot push more air and generate higher SPL than a small two-way box.

The question is whether that small box throws a properly-scaled soundstage consistent with and proportional to the ambient soundstage information embedded in the recording, versus a large loudspeaker which automatically scales up everything (like the “fit to page” button in the printing window of your computer), whether or not the requisite information to do so is on the recording.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I’m not a designer and was told by two designers it’s a fact beyond mine
now I was told by moving them closer to the middle it can be minimized
I was also told how loud and how close one sits also affects this.
but flawed or not a line source to me is a real stage one that can allow for all plains to be heard in front of me
not just front to back or left to right but height

Read this helps really to get a amazing soundstage, if you can do in your room.

Installation guide for loudspeakers by Joachim Gerhard - Suesskind Audio

Joachim Gerhard has put more than 50 years of experience with loudspeakers into this set-up method in order to achieve the best possible sound.

suesskindaudio.de

 

[Audiocrack]

A post about how a small speaker is less able to generate the majesty and thunder of a big orchestra than is a large speaker is a different question than the soundstaging question I raised in the opening post. No one is suggesting that a phalanx of drivers cannot push more air and generate higher SPL than a small two-way box.

The question is whether that small box throws a properly-scaled soundstage consistent with and proportional to the ambient soundstage information embedded in the recording, versus a large loudspeaker which automatically scales up everything (like the “fit to page” button in the printing window of your computer), whether or not the requisite information to do so is on the recording.

Yes it is a different question (and not the real topic of this thread). But if you - like me - love to listen to large orchestral pieces cq classical symphonies, don’t you automatically need large loudspeakers that can move ‘enough air’ and recreate a very solid low end in order to let you really enjoy these pieces? Because soundstaging alone will just do not the job.

 

[tima]

joachim gerhard create a lot amazing speakers, audiopysic medea, virgo,sonics allegra and now süsskind . He is my reference in soundstaging. I would like to hear his new Surveyor Master.

I've heard many of his Audio Physic speakers in near field and soundstageing (is that a word?) has always been his forte. A key was the narrow baffle. Though not as narraow a baffle, the Caldera was very cool. I owned a pair of Avanit Century in Birds-Eye maple, circa 2000.

 

[Audiocrack]

I've heard many of his Audio Physic speakers in near field and soundstageing (is that a word?) has always been his forte. A key was the narrow baffle. Though not a narraow baffle, the Medea was very cool. I owned a pair of Avanit Century in Birds-Eye maple, circa 2000.

View attachment 98803

Ever heard Joachim’s very special Cerubin loudspeakers? They were able to create a huge soundstage.

 

[tima]

I think you misunderstood me, the speakers reproduce the recording(soundstage) excellently, regardless of whether in deep, high or wide. they disappear acoustically, not many loudspeakers can do that. bass they can also -3db/32 hertz. I can recommend you to listen to Süsskind audio progress lx speaker will amaze you promised

I wasn't questioning that those speakers fill the room. I was questioning whether electronic music (as in your DCD example) has a scale in size. The music may be created with various phase 'tricks' to create 'musical objects in space' but it has no actual ambience or recorded ambient cues to tell us about its scale. Versus, say, an orchestra or a string quartet -- acoustic music in a physical context -- where the reproduction of that context (or not) gives us a sense of 'scale in reality'.

 

[Gregadd]

Is his a small speaker?

 

[Kingrex]

I have experienced the large scale speakers create larger scale music. I have heard it at my place with the Sonus Faber, then PAP trio 10, then the Trio 15.

But, I believe the room has a lot to do with it. I think matching the speaker to your new room will create appropriate scale for large classical.

 

[Hear Here]

As long as the speakers can realistically reproduce the full range of the orchestra or band, it matters little the shape or size of the speakers. The trouble with small speakers is that generally they can't reproduce the full range of an orchestra so buyers of small speakers then try adding subs to improve on the inadequacies of their small speakers. This in turn adds more problems in setting up properly so they then chuck room correction DSP at their self-generated problems. DSP adds an unwanted layer of signal processing (that affects the entire frequency range if the DSP is in a single full-range amp), thus spoiling the finesse of the signal. The top end, though usually not ADJUSTED, is nevertheless processed and suffers accordingly. So, my view is to buy big enough speakers capable of reproducing the full range, subject only to room conditions. And don't expect 6" or even 8" drivers to adequately reproduce bass with stress-free delivery.

 

[andromedaaudio]

 

[morricab]

The most realistic soundstage I ever had was with my 2.4 meter high Acoustats. They gave natural height and image sizes depending on the recording. As they were essentially a single driver from floor to ceiling it was basically about as good as you can get in that regard. They were somewhat limited in dynamics until I added more panels so good horns still have advantages but not in terms of soundstage and image accuracy.

 

[cjfrbw]

I have 'tall speakers' now with the 75 inch ribbons. There is no doubt in my mind that these contribute to enhanced 'height' cues as well as width and depth. Certain specific musics float up to the right and left above the middle horizontal median of the soundstage. I can point to them. I can hear the 'raised dais' effect of some instruments and drums. An example is the ubiquitous Sheffield drum tracks, which appear to play above the horizontal median.

Some of these can be heard with the smaller ribbons, too, but not as explicitly. So, I guess my vote is that tall speakers do stretch the soundstage variances up and down in a more perceptible way than short speakers.

There is a bit of 'lowered beneath the median horizontal' as well, but not as marked as the height cues.

Whether these cues are necessary to the enjoyment of music is another issue. I have had intense enjoyment from systems with modest imaging, but superlative, seductive sound. I do like the height stuff, though, and would miss it if it weren't there.