Speaker Challenge . . .
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
As did the Apogees, which is why most of their long time owners don't look elsewhere
I agree, David!
I credit Kedar with prompting me to investigate horns and SET amps. I now totally understand why horn aficionados love horns.
I also now appreciate the virtues of the general combination of high sensitivity speakers and SET amps, whether horns driven by a couple of watts or big Wilsons driven by 20 or so watts.
I remember formally auditioning Divas at Sound by Singer in the early 1990s. For me it came down to the Divas versus the MartinLogan Monolith IIIs. I remember it being a very close call. I chose the Monoliths IIIs but I cannot remember why. I suspect Andy told me I would have to use big solid-state amps on the Divas. Even back then I was using tube amplifiers.
I credit Kedar with prompting me to investigate horns and SET amps. I now totally understand why horn aficionados love horns.
I also now appreciate the virtues of the general combination of high sensitivity speakers and SET amps, whether horns driven by a couple of watts or big Wilsons driven by 20 or so watts.
I remember formally auditioning Divas at Sound by Singer in the early 1990s. For me it came down to the Divas versus the MartinLogan Monolith IIIs. I remember it being a very close call. I chose the Monoliths IIIs but I cannot remember why. I suspect Andy told me I would have to use big solid-state amps on the Divas. Even back then I was using tube amplifiers.
What is your opinion about the Apogee Acoustics Synergy? Do you know what is the price of this speaker?
These were at the Sydney audio show, and were regarded by some as the "go to" setup. Well, a big no from me - I asked for them to be cranked up, but the combo of amp used and walloping subwoofer made sure the sound was pretty well all wrong ...What I remember from every WA demo is that they crank the volume to ear bleed levels just to make sure you go deaf before hearing how many things are wrong with their setup!
Yes indeed very interesting opinions vented here--ha!--after all this is an Audiophile bunfight
Poor Ron I'm imagined is more confused than ever in his quest for the Holy Grail
I happen to agree with David on the longevity -read Stability of Electrostats--I've owned Soundlabs/Quads/Dayton Wrights/etc and the fact while they can endear to ones Sonic sensibilities
the ever present nagging factor of Destruction looms large-- and you don't necessary have to be playing loud electronic Muzz for that to happen--- Weather /Humidity --the Soundlab importer in Thailand gave up after his products self destructed in those trying conditions
( Fine in the high veldt of Utah though
So just how much can a Grizzly Bear?--sonic wonderment for a time--then disappointment while the waiting for replacement panels to arrive
I know the latter in all counts of ESL's I've owned--in short great premise--(thank you PW RIP) But the nerves and patience don't endear to assist the pleasurable listening experience
Oh yes as I've stated previous --I've witnessed Apogees Self destruct too! MG-1's tweeter wires burning out---/etc/etc
However although I've never owned a pair--but I have friends with 30 year old Acoustats that are still trucking on--so there are exceptions to every rule!
My personal leanings tend towards the Field Coil-- some of the finest playback I've heard in an domestic environment --not Shows--are FC's
Carry on Gents
BruceD
Poor Ron I'm imagined is more confused than ever in his quest for the Holy Grail
I happen to agree with David on the longevity -read Stability of Electrostats--I've owned Soundlabs/Quads/Dayton Wrights/etc and the fact while they can endear to ones Sonic sensibilities
the ever present nagging factor of Destruction looms large-- and you don't necessary have to be playing loud electronic Muzz for that to happen--- Weather /Humidity --the Soundlab importer in Thailand gave up after his products self destructed in those trying conditions
( Fine in the high veldt of Utah though
So just how much can a Grizzly Bear?--sonic wonderment for a time--then disappointment while the waiting for replacement panels to arrive
I know the latter in all counts of ESL's I've owned--in short great premise--(thank you PW RIP) But the nerves and patience don't endear to assist the pleasurable listening experience
Oh yes as I've stated previous --I've witnessed Apogees Self destruct too! MG-1's tweeter wires burning out---/etc/etc
However although I've never owned a pair--but I have friends with 30 year old Acoustats that are still trucking on--so there are exceptions to every rule!
My personal leanings tend towards the Field Coil-- some of the finest playback I've heard in an domestic environment --not Shows--are FC's
Carry on Gents
BruceD
No idea, think it was a one-off by Graz based on the Scintilla. Graz occasionally builds a one-off. He built a Definitive, which was supposed to be a much higher efficiency speaker with better magnets, and is now building a high efficiency duetta signature and a Diva, but that might take a while and is one-off. Rumor has it the Definitive was 100k, the new high efficiency duetta will be 40k GBP, Synergy was probably less.
The comments I am providing are on Apogee restores only. And not all restores are the same.
Ron, I am not sure where you are on your speaker quest, but a friend heard these in Hong Kong at the AE show and was amazed:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/06/cessaro-qian-long-ultimate-field-coil.html
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/06/cessaro-qian-long-ultimate-field-coil.html
So the field coil speakers use a conventional cone but drive the cone with an electromagnetic field?
I am glad Kedar has "closed" his speaker search with definitive conclusions.
BruceD - I am not completely adrift in a hopeless quagmire of confusion.
Among speakers in current production (limited production though high-end audio may be) overall the Pendragon is my favorite and the Genesis is my second favorite (and I have not even heard the Genesis 1.2 let alone the Dragon let alone the new Prime). (One difference is that Gary conscientiously designs for good off-axis response, and I care only about the "sweet spot" and one seat behind the sweet spot.)
I could live very happily with the Rockport Arrakis and the VSA VR-11SE Mk. II. I like the MartinLogan Neolith very much, too, but I think the ultimate realization of that design requires a four column format.
If my primary musical interest were jazz and classical I would choose the Viva Masterhorn or the Cessaro Beta-II F-4 or the Acapella Arts Apollon. I now understand that horns move air in a way that achieves with instruments a unique sense of realism.
I am glad Kedar has "closed" his speaker search with definitive conclusions.
BruceD - I am not completely adrift in a hopeless quagmire of confusion.
Among speakers in current production (limited production though high-end audio may be) overall the Pendragon is my favorite and the Genesis is my second favorite (and I have not even heard the Genesis 1.2 let alone the Dragon let alone the new Prime). (One difference is that Gary conscientiously designs for good off-axis response, and I care only about the "sweet spot" and one seat behind the sweet spot.)
I could live very happily with the Rockport Arrakis and the VSA VR-11SE Mk. II. I like the MartinLogan Neolith very much, too, but I think the ultimate realization of that design requires a four column format.
If my primary musical interest were jazz and classical I would choose the Viva Masterhorn or the Cessaro Beta-II F-4 or the Acapella Arts Apollon. I now understand that horns move air in a way that achieves with instruments a unique sense of realism.
Most drivers except electrostatic, piezo (not common in High End) and ionic (plasma) use an electromagnetic field. The "Field coil" drivers use and electromagnet powered by an external source whereas regular electrodynamic drivers use a permanent magnet. You can have a stronger magnetic field and perhaps a more uniform one with an electromagnet. From the top of my head I suppose you can thus have a much more efficient driver. There was one such driver in a very old Telefunken Table radio in my house... I could have been 7 to 8 years old when I started noticing it, this radio was only AM and shortwave and I remember listening to it until I was 15 years old. I would slightly detune the AM to hear some treble. I have been looking for it for a while now. Haven't found it
What Frantz says is essentially correct. They were in a CNO 7 figure system. Worth a listen. I don't know where you could hear them. Jeff at High Water Sound in NYC is one dealer who carries Cessaro.
Synergy was a lot less, and used neodymium magnets, so was high efficiency.
Advance 7 (7th Graz iteration of the Duetta - hence the name) is super high rigidity, but not high efficiency. Perhaps marginally higher efficiency than Duetta Signature, but not by much.
I wouldn't like to say £40K is right for Advance 7. Price is unset last time I heard, but it IS expensive and that probably is within around 20% of the selling price but that is still a guess.
Will it sell at that price? Hm.
The bass speaker of the Focal Grande Utopia EM is a field coil driver. See http://www.grande-utopia-em.com/en/technologies/em.php for the benefits. A very nice thing is that you can tune the bass varying the magnetic field of the bass.
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