It's also the crossovers that he adds new components to. Are yours the same as the original settings, and with upgraded components? Didn't Jon change your frequencies?
Speaker Challenge . . .
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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It's also the crossovers that he adds new components to. Are yours the same as the original settings, and with upgraded components? Didn't Jon change your frequencies?
The first MRT ribbon change in my original Duettas was also done with a crossover upgrade. That had to be revised as it had surreal "too much information" qualities, and we made an inductor change to make them sound right. This MRT ribbon was an upgrade using a new glue, if I remember correctly.
The third set in my current "Interstella" speakers also has the new(ish) Graz ribbon clamps.
So actually it is hard to say for sure what exactly accounted for the changes as no single change was made at any one time.
The third set in my current "Interstella" speakers also has the new(ish) Graz ribbon clamps.
So actually it is hard to say for sure what exactly accounted for the changes as no single change was made at any one time.
It is the original Apogee circuit without the three way switch and associated circuitry.
Clarity ESA caps and resistors I can't tell you the name of, LOL. Henk is probably using some quite different components.
I was thinking of building some expensive x-overs at some stage with super foo caps and resistors.
The FR was in a big enough room and probably I would have kept it if there was a Lamm M2.1 at the time but ultimately I did a 180 because I knew that I had either reached or were close enough to the pinnacle of ss with the Lamm and still there was something lacking. Scintillas presented a more demanding load to the amplifier than the others but they're all a bitch to drive. The FR wasn't as difficult a load as the rest but required a lot more power than the Duetta or the Diva. Diva was Spiegel's compromise between the biggest sound and need for power. I know what you heard with those Apogee systems and tubes, it can be lovely but tubes and most ss for that matter just can't provide enough juice to really bring these speakers to life. FYI, I don't know how the legend started but Krell of that time neither had enough juice nor did it do better with these difficult loads they were on a par with the VTLs and Manleys I had. The most powerful Krells I owned was the KAS, Krell Audio Standard that I bought with the Grands, it drove the Divas but not as well as the Levinson 33. But the problem I always had and still have with these high powered amps is sound quality, they can be very impressive but have little in common with music for me.
What do you mean by semi active solution Ked?
david
As you've indicated in your posts here it's the system that makes music, not the speakers. For various reasons high powered amplifiers make the job much harder, setups which use low powered amps have a much greater chance of getting the sound right. The problem is that most systems, to this day, are not engineered well enough to be able to do this in raw form, extensive fiddling is needed to get the tonality right.
The ideal solution is amps with sufficient power, and high quality speakers of reasonable efficiency. Engineered right, they would be able to deliver the tonality and SPLs for every type of musical experience, effortlessly.
The sweet spot for ss without costing an arm & a leg or more are 25-50 watt Class A amps unfortunately availability of cheap watts these days has led to very inefficient speakers, but there are vintage alternatives.
david
Curious as to what your view is on high-efficiency, friendly load speakers (my Wilson X1s, 95db and 8-ohm load, generally does not dip below 6ohm with few exceptions (high treble) ) and my using it with the Gryphon Colosseum (160 watts pure Class A into 8ohm load). I got the Gryphon because i liked it, AND it gives me incredible flexibility going forward to power more demanding loads without much problem.
It is almost certainly loafing with the Wilsons unless (perhaps) i decided to play large scale orchestral/movie soundtracks at volume.
A very good move - I have been impressed, by some standard Klipsch speakers of very moderate cost, that have extremely similar driving characteristics to those you note there, being driven by a very unpretentious Japanese receiver. The latter was also "loafing", and it showed - produced genuine dynamics, that easily outshone some very ambitious systems I've come across. Speaking of Gryphon, it obviously depends - a combination of one of their monsters and a Wilson Sasha(??) in a dealer's room was reasonable, but nothing more than that ...
Lloyd,
I have found that the capability of playing large scale orchestral at realistic volume depends as much in the electronics / source as in the speakers. Although I have no experience with your particular version of the Grand Slamm, considering what I heard of the original version, Maxx's and X2 I have no doubt that your speakers can play large scale orchestralwith the needed scale and power. Contrary to many opinions I find that for this purpose you need good watts and synergy, not just subs. Concerning large scale orchestral IMHO the big difference between real and reproduced music is power not energy (remember that power is the rate of doing work) but also power versus place - in this aspect a credible soundstage helps.
Did you ever try a reasonable power conrad johnson power amplifier in your system with the GAT?
You can get tweeter ribbons, midrange ribbons and full-range ribbons from several speaker manufacturers.
You can get planar magnetic woofer panels from several speaker manufacturers.
You can get electrostatic speakers, both pure and hybrid, from several speaker manufacturers.
What is unique about the Apogees -- and what you cannot get from current speaker manufacturers -- is a ribbon woofer panel. I think the ribbon woofer panel, with its (to me) amazing and unique sonic characteristics, is really the competitive advantage, and unique selling point, of the Apogees.
You can get planar magnetic woofer panels from several speaker manufacturers.
You can get electrostatic speakers, both pure and hybrid, from several speaker manufacturers.
What is unique about the Apogees -- and what you cannot get from current speaker manufacturers -- is a ribbon woofer panel. I think the ribbon woofer panel, with its (to me) amazing and unique sonic characteristics, is really the competitive advantage, and unique selling point, of the Apogees.
Thanks, Micro. I have never heard CJ amps with this particular pair of speakers...i long debated about CJ ART monos vs Lamm 2.0 SET monos vs Gryphon Colosseum. In addition to current sound, i also had in mind future flexibility to drive more difficult loads. So sadly Lamm fell out though i have no doubt they are amazing with our current speakers.
Then it came down to availability, and the Colosseum came my way. I would be most curious to try ART monos with the GAT simply (as you have always said) due to the consistency of design.
Does any one remember which models had pure aluminum ribbon and which had aluminium/Kapton ribbon bass panels?
FR is pure ribbon, the others are not. But Henk says it's not that simple as the grands he mentioned are kapton backed as well and still as musical, so even he cannot attribute it simply to purity. It might have to do with ribbon width. The big brothers have twice the width in the mids ribbon.
Well, not quite. Technically it isn't a ribbon as it is supported on all four sides. But it is quite unique.
However, it has the most articulate bass I have ever heard from a speaker. The only thing that comes close that I have heard is Audionec's "The Answer". But that driver is quite narrow band i.e. 200Hz to 20Hz. It is excellent, though.
Check out Wisdom, Ron. I think there's a good chance the freestanding LS4 and their subs would be right down your street. I heard a Wisdom setup at Munich and it was excellent, though not the LS4.
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