Speaker Oasis...Bionor
- Thread starter ALF
- Start date
If the Bionors were not so rare and valuable an installation in a wood panelled wall ( sustituting the flat baffles with the wall itself) would be unobtrusive and elegant.I am probably just weird but I find the Bionors mating of the curved low freq wood horn to the flat wood surface a thing of great beauty. However judging from DDK and others' installations they would not appear to like being placed flat against a wall at all ?
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Not only that but while at David's he told me that he had commissioned a master carpenter to build the baffles out of virtually every type of wood and glue known to man and was unable to reproduce the sound (sort of like attempting to build a Stradivarius on your own ) of the existing baffles
Thanks to a kind introduction by Steve, I found myself in Las Vegas this week and took the opportunity to accept David's kind invitation to visit his home which is a short 2+ hours away by car to Cedar City, Utah. I am formally changing David's name to "The Great Karmeli". The reason is that this title is an appropriate one for a great magician and David is certainly that. David's system offers midrange reproduction that is at once, vital, extremely musical and natural (David's favorite descriptor), and as such is about as damn good a facsimile of the real thing as you are likely to hear. It is truly not that far away from a convincing magic act. But like any good magic act, it did not happen by accident. Every minute detail as well as the selection of gear and the ancillary components is there for a reason. This reflects years of hard work and careful optimization for which he has earned my highest praise. The loose translation of that comment would go something like this "he is one crazy mother ....." but I can easily relate to his trials and tribulations because it is my kind of crazy as well.
The main limitation is an obvious one to which David agrees. It is simply that we are doing the system a disservice by listening to it from about 15 feet away. It would be more ideal to listen from about 40 feet away, but that requires a room that is far larger than most mortals can create in their home environments. At a greater distance, driver integration would surely be even better, but this is a moot point. David's room is rather large (25 x 40?) and the fact that his system is not playing in an amphitheater setting detracts little from the extreme enjoyment of the listening experience.
As an additional benefit, David's collection of turntables and cartridges is of Smithsonian caliber, and therefore represents a rare opportunity to hear the differences in tables (as the only variable) using the identical ancillary gear (cartridge, arm, phono calbe, phono-preamp, etc) . I doubt this can be easily reproduced anywhere else in the world. Seriously. The educational value of this alone is off the charts.
I will close by telling you that David's system was not the best thing I heard during my visit. David apologized but he took me to go hear his 4 year daughter's first piano recital so my visit took a detour of about 30 minutes to a local auditorium where she played duets along with a dozen or so other kids on 12 Steinway pianos. But there was no doubt about. The kid stole the show. It should also be noted she was the cutest little girl in the entire performance and is a natural performer as well. Martha Argerich, watch out!!
David, thanks so much for you and your wife's generous hospitality. I hope to repay you in kind some day in NJ. It is events like these and meeting extraordinary like-minded audiophiles that makes this hobby truly wonderful.
The main limitation is an obvious one to which David agrees. It is simply that we are doing the system a disservice by listening to it from about 15 feet away. It would be more ideal to listen from about 40 feet away, but that requires a room that is far larger than most mortals can create in their home environments. At a greater distance, driver integration would surely be even better, but this is a moot point. David's room is rather large (25 x 40?) and the fact that his system is not playing in an amphitheater setting detracts little from the extreme enjoyment of the listening experience.
As an additional benefit, David's collection of turntables and cartridges is of Smithsonian caliber, and therefore represents a rare opportunity to hear the differences in tables (as the only variable) using the identical ancillary gear (cartridge, arm, phono calbe, phono-preamp, etc) . I doubt this can be easily reproduced anywhere else in the world. Seriously. The educational value of this alone is off the charts.
I will close by telling you that David's system was not the best thing I heard during my visit. David apologized but he took me to go hear his 4 year daughter's first piano recital so my visit took a detour of about 30 minutes to a local auditorium where she played duets along with a dozen or so other kids on 12 Steinway pianos. But there was no doubt about. The kid stole the show. It should also be noted she was the cutest little girl in the entire performance and is a natural performer as well. Martha Argerich, watch out!!
David, thanks so much for you and your wife's generous hospitality. I hope to repay you in kind some day in NJ. It is events like these and meeting extraordinary like-minded audiophiles that makes this hobby truly wonderful.
Thank you for the kind words Marty, both my wife & I along with the little one appreciate it! I'm glad you made it here, was a pleasure and at some point we'll happily take you up on your offer and visit!
david
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I am so happy for you Marty that you found the side trail to David's house for that audition. Systems like David's are truly one of a kind and as you found David is indeed one crazy mother ******. He has knowledge in everything audio and that for me was a real learning experience.
I dunno...how can anyone have an enjoyable high end experience without measurement validation; preferably with O'Toole/Harman methodology? Do you have the audacity to suggest that we can make qualitative decisions by actually listening? Color me skeptical...
I believe Bonzo is going to have the opportunity of hearing Dave's system in the near future. He's had quite a bit of experience of auditioning various WE systems, and like me has heard the Denman Exponential Horn. I'll be fascinated to get his take as to how these all compare and contrast. My guess is more family similarities than differences.
If my experience on the Denman is anything to go by, spkrs other than these WE-derived beauties just play at playing music.
If my experience on the Denman is anything to go by, spkrs other than these WE-derived beauties just play at playing music.
I think ddk's has more frequency coverage than WE - goes down to 50hz, and was made a bit later, so more advanced, but thankfully early enough before 'advanced technology' of foo speakers arrived.
I actually contacted him earlier in the year, well before Steve's review hit the forums, because his system interested me the most. yet due to travel times - takes me 4 days of just travel to and fro included, forget the listening time - I have not made it there. But will do shortly.
Like Marty mentioned, it is the learning mecca.
WE were full range horns, the size is for frequency response not loudness and they were paired with a bass bin for lower frequency augmentation.The short horn was very specific to this generation of Klangilms, AFAIK this Siemens horn was as unique back then as it is today, crossover is at 500hz. If interested, there's a lot information in thread #89 on the speakers,
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...My-Step-Beyond&p=329572&viewfull=1#post329572
david
Welcome anytime!If only I had the space...a couple years away. I will have to come out for a visit to experience "el naturale..."
david
David, Bonzo who I believe is planning to visit you, is a big fan of the WE 15A horn in mono mode, and is strongly suggesting I get the opportunity to hear it.
As you know, I had the out-of-body experience of the vintage WE-based Denman Exponential Horn sound a couple of years ago, and it remains the single most striking experience in all of audio on my part.
I jokingly asked the designer (re-creator, more accurately) what it would cost to make me one, and he said £65k.
Now at 27' long, and flaring to a 7'x5' horn mouth, very few would be able to accommodate it. However if my plans come to fruition, I may be moving to a house w/a 45'x15'x10' listening space, and the Denman could fit right in.
Can I ask as someone w/day to day experience of this radical horn presentation what you think about running a vintage WE in mono horn mode, and whether the nominal frequency range of 30Hz-10kHz of the Denman is really practical in real world music reproduction?
As you know, I had the out-of-body experience of the vintage WE-based Denman Exponential Horn sound a couple of years ago, and it remains the single most striking experience in all of audio on my part.
I jokingly asked the designer (re-creator, more accurately) what it would cost to make me one, and he said £65k.
Now at 27' long, and flaring to a 7'x5' horn mouth, very few would be able to accommodate it. However if my plans come to fruition, I may be moving to a house w/a 45'x15'x10' listening space, and the Denman could fit right in.
Can I ask as someone w/day to day experience of this radical horn presentation what you think about running a vintage WE in mono horn mode, and whether the nominal frequency range of 30Hz-10kHz of the Denman is really practical in real world music reproduction?
Keith, the Denman Horn is/was only a single speaker. I loved your Liszts, who wouldn't, but the Denman transported me to another Universe. Unless you heard it, you'll have no inkling about what I'm talking about. Just to say that on playback of a rainstorm, individual raindrops could be experienced, and they had personalities. It's like death by marshmallow as the soundfield reaches out and hugs you. AMAZING for in effect a mono point source, to replicate total surround sound.
Now, Denman ownership about as likely as me replacing my lp's w digital. But my proposed space COULD accommodate it physically.
Just intrigued by David's thoughts as an owner of the nearest things to Denman.
Now, Denman ownership about as likely as me replacing my lp's w digital. But my proposed space COULD accommodate it physically.
Just intrigued by David's thoughts as an owner of the nearest things to Denman.
