Stahl-Tek Vekian Opus DAC - Anyone heard it?

[opus111]

If you are looking for an alternative DAC, I would go for the GTE Audio Trinity. Its superior DAC solution in combination with no digital filter (like the Zanden DAC) makes it the best DAC on the market - although at a price.

Thanks for drawing my attention to this DAC, it looks interesting and I'm digesting their white paper on 'LIANOTEC' now. It gets off to a good start but then says its 'new' but also linear interpolation and 'quadratic series' - neither of which is new. So far I'm not very hopeful they've achieved any kind of breakthrough in DAC development but I'll see later what their patent says....

 

[LL21]

Thanks for drawing my attention to this DAC, it looks interesting and I'm digesting their white paper on 'LIANOTEC' now. It gets off to a good start but then says its 'new' but also linear interpolation and 'quadratic series' - neither of which is new. So far I'm not very hopeful they've achieved any kind of breakthrough in DAC development but I'll see later what their patent says....

Great!!! Thanks for taking such interest! Look forward to your advice...as always!

 

[LL21]

Exactly how I ended up with my MSB Signature DAC IV.

ps. . .I'm demoing the MSB Femtosecond clock right now. . .

I happen to have the review from Audiocritic on this one...looks amazing.

 

[opus111]

Look forward to your advice...as always!

I've read through the papers I found on their website and ended up a bit confused!

The impression I got from Roysen was that there's 'no digital filter'. But then in one of
the papers it says they decided they needed a digital filter (8X OS) after all and they
only take it out when the sample rate is 192k. There's an impulse response shown on
one of the graphs which definitely displays pre-ringing, meaning a linear phase digital
filter is being used.

Its using decent DACs (PCM1704) but I doubt its the best bang for the buck because
of that apparent OS filter (off the shelf chip?) with pre-ringing. Steer clear is my advice!

 

[LL21]

I've read through the papers I found on their website and ended up a bit confused!

The impression I got from Roysen was that there's 'no digital filter'. But then in one of
the papers it says they decided they needed a digital filter (8X OS) after all and they
only take it out when the sample rate is 192k. There's an impulse response shown on
one of the graphs which definitely displays pre-ringing, meaning a linear phase digital
filter is being used.

Its using decent DACs (PCM1704) but I doubt its the best bang for the buck because
of that apparent OS filter (off the shelf chip?) with pre-ringing. Steer clear is my advice!

Thanks, Opus111! Funny thing, when Zanden experimented with hi-res 8 years ago...they also used the PCM 1704 from what i have read...but ultimately Zanden decided they preferred to focus on the best 16/44 using the TDA1541A double-crown chip...saying it sounded better.

 

[wizard]

Thanks for drawing my attention to this DAC, it looks interesting and I'm digesting their white paper on 'LIANOTEC' now. It gets off to a good start but then says its 'new' but also linear interpolation and 'quadratic series' - neither of which is new. So far I'm not very hopeful they've achieved any kind of breakthrough in DAC development but I'll see later what their patent says....

The original Trinity dac design is now about 10 years, it was a breakthrough at that time, and the sound is still just outstanding.
Of course it has been upgraded since then.

The new cheaper Trinity dac also with Lianotec should be a winner - price around €10-15000.

 

[opus111]

What was breakthrough about the Trinity DAC then? I must have missed it so do please explain.

 

[wizard]

View attachment 4768

First the 3-chassis design with separate mono dac channels, control unit with Trinity designed digital input and filter - no cheap Crystal 2416 input receiver is used here. No analog output filter. No upsampling.
Yes it uses brickwall filter on single 32-96k inputs, the filter can be turned off if one uses dual-aes 96k, single 176,4 and 192k.

I haven't seen other digital designs who can turn off the digital filtering and uses mono dac channels.

Zanden 5000S has no digital filter, but the measurements are terrible - it's not advised to use it alone - to much jitter in the signal.
It only sounds good with it's I2S transport.

Other digital designs who uses brickwall filter and has outstanding sound is MSB Platinum IV, dCS++.
So the digital filter isn't the most important, it's the design as a whole.

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Wizard. Starting to appreciate some of the leading digital players out there.

 

[opus111]

Thanks for giving us the heads up on this DAC.

First the 3-chassis design with separate mono dac channels, control unit with Trinity designed digital input and filter - no cheap Crystal 2416 input receiver is used here.

So cheap implies 'bad' here? Which input receiver do they use? WM8805 is equally cheap, TDA1315H is not very much more.

No analog output filter. No upsampling.

But it seems they do use upsampling on 44k1. As you say they use brickwall filter, this does the over(up) sampling.

I haven't seen other digital designs who can turn off the digital filtering and uses mono dac channels.

But you can't turn off the digital filter at the lower sample rates. With for example Audio-gd's designs you can select the amount of upsampling used, including NOS.

Zanden 5000S has no digital filter, but the measurements are terrible - it's not advised to use it alone - to much jitter in the signal.
It only sounds good with it's I2S transport.

So by terrible measurements you mean terrible jitter sidebands?

Other digital designs who uses brickwall filter and has outstanding sound is MSB Platinum IV, dCS++.

Of course there are different ways to implement the digital filtering. I doubt very much if dCS uses an off the shelf IC. Does the Trinity use a commercial upsampling chip?

So the digital filter isn't the most important, it's the design as a whole.

Yes, I agree there. I just picked up on the digital filter because an earlier poster had said that none was used, which confused me.

 

[LL21]

Has anyone heard the GTE Trinity DAC? Just curious.

 

[wizard]

Trinity will start to work on the new 00 dac in next week.

It will have 4 inputs, support up to 24/384, but no native dsd.
1 chassis instead of 3 in the old one, Lianotec with 8 - 1704 converters pr channel.

 

[LL21]

Trinity will start to work on the new 00 dac in next week.

It will have 4 inputs, support up to 24/384, but no native dsd.
1 chassis instead of 3 in the old one, Lianotec with 8 - 1704 converters pr channel.

Interesting...thanks!

 

[wizard]

Trinity will start to work on the new 00 dac in next week.

It will have 4 inputs, support up to 24/384, but no native dsd.
1 chassis instead of 3 in the old one, Lianotec with 8 - 1704 converters pr channel.

The new 00 dac and the old one uses Trinity's own digital filter design.
Trinity don't use a brickwall filter, but a pulse optimized type with a little ringing.

00 dac like the old one don't use any low pass analog filter.


The Usb2 interface on the 00 dac will be completely galvanic decoupled.
And it will be on a separate PCB separated from the regular 192k inputs.

The Usb2 PCB or the other can be easily changed later, to for example a Thunderbolt or Usb3 interface.

 

[LL21]

The new 00 dac and the old one uses Trinity's own digital filter design.
Trinity don't use a brickwall filter, but a pulse optimized type with a little ringing.

00 dac like the old one don't use any low pass analog filter.


The Usb2 interface on the 00 dac will be completely galvanic decoupled.
And it will be on a separate PCB separated from the regular 192k inputs.

The Usb2 PCB or the other can be easily changed later, to for example a Thunderbolt or Usb3 interface.

When is this expected to be ready?

 

[wizard]

When is this expected to be ready?

Around 3 or 4 months.

 

[LL21]

Around 3 or 4 months.

Thanks!

 

[Thf99]

Around 3 or 4 months.

What is the expected price (in Euros)?

 

[LL21]

What is the expected price (in Euros)?

I think Wizard said Eur10K-15K...Wizard, were you referring below to the same new DAC from Trinity?

The original Trinity dac design is now about 10 years, it was a breakthrough at that time, and the sound is still just outstanding.
Of course it has been upgraded since then.

The new cheaper Trinity dac also with Lianotec should be a winner - price around €10-15000.

 

[wizard]

Price for the 00 dac will be around €13-15K

I call it 00 because no name yet.


While we wait for the Trinity 00 dac - read a review from 2007 on the old triangular 3-chassis dac - PCM King