State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[microstrip]

(...) You keep attacking videos after repeated warnings. And I am negative? (...)

I explained with proper spectral analysis how misleading these videos can be. I do not object to videos as a form of entertainment and communication, but when I see people suggesting that they are better than words describing sonic differences or accusing others of not sharing videos I feel we should discuss it.

 

[tima]

Let's not talk further about videos in this thread.

 

[KeithR]

Peter,

I think it’s more accurate to say the industry is trying to grow. We are not in a period of survival. Most high end companies have enjoyed record profits recently.

much of this is pandemic pull forward demand, stimulus, and forced savings. now with rampant audio inflation, it will be interesting to see what next year's results are - my speakers moved from $36k last year to $52k this week.

 

[KeithR]

OK that is one manufacturer, but isn't much of that for the headfi market?

Back in the 80s and 90s there were many many manufacturers who produced more .

yes, and Pioneer Elite and Sony cdps that weren't expensive but quite good. the Japanese electronics firms were big in the 90s and then disappeared for 15 years

 

[Al M.]

You keep attacking videos after repeated warnings. And I am negative?

Actually, I don't attack specific videos anymore. I promised to Tango that I would not say negative things anymore about the sound of *specific* videos that were posted. I did reserve the right to criticize video sound quality in general when it comes to *general* discussion about videos. Tango was happy with that. You can go through the archives and look up the exchange if you want. If you can prove that I misremember this, I will gladly stand corrected, but I believe I got that right.

As far as I know I kept my promise. I have almost entirely kept silent on specific videos. I did comment on a recent Bruckner video on Tango's thread, but in a *positive*, complimentary way.

I also commented on a cable comparison on Tango's thread where I took the sound of what I heard through the video at face value. I came to different conclusions than others and did at some point wonder if that was because of the video sound being differently translated on different playback devices, but I did *not* criticize "crappy video sound" on that occasion.

I also commented on a specific video on this thread (which I had forgotten in an earlier response after being attacked), and I did have negative things to say about the sound -- not of the video, but about the system. I did take the sound, in particular the tonal balance, of the video *at face value*, as if representing the system, and discussed it as such. Once more I did *not* complain about "crappy video sound" or such. Big difference. But in your unhealthy obsession with videos as if they were the end-all be-all of course this important difference eluded your perception. Yes, I did make a remark that it's easy for my system to at least equal the liveliness of another system through video, but that was no dig at "crappy video sound" (which I did not bring up in the discussion), but an obvious statement of fact related to undeniable limitations of videos.

Other than the above listed instances, I have made no other comments on particular videos after my promise to Tango. If you think I do not tell the truth, then prove it. If you can, I'll gladly concede a mistake in my memory of things.

As I said, I did reserve in my promise to Tango the right to critizise video sound quality as a whole when it comes to *general* discussion about them, which I did later in this thread.

I must say I have heard tons of videos that I did not like or even found ridiculous in the meantime, after my promise to Tango, but I just smiled and kept my mouth shut rather than criticizing any specific video other than in the one instance mentioned. There as I stated, I took the sound at face value, as being correctly representative *of the system* in the video (which of course I cannot assume, but took as basis for discussion), rather than complaining about "crappy video sound".

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I found it important to set the record straight, in detail.

 

[Al M.]

Let's not talk further about videos in this thread.

I saw this after just posting my reply to Bonzo. I will try to respect your wishes; I hope that Bonzo can be satisfied with my reply and does not further drag this out in a way that makes further replies unavoidable.

 

[ddk]

What you seem to do David is make some huge statement about HP but yet you were at his place ONCE. You make these remarks and throw them out like they are facts. False Guidance - does that mean you did not like what he said and YOU are the only maven and the ONLY one that can hear correctly? WE GET IT YOU LIKE OLD STUFF. Enjoy it ! I like different things but I don't find the need to put your gear down for me to enjoy mine.
I think that attitudes like yours are what is ruining audio is that real enough for you!
The Industry made HP into what he became. Every company wanted a piece of him. AS Roy said the Industry had no marketing and used the review and specifically HP's reviews to put them on the consumer map.
Again I will let Alan and Sunny reply to your inflammatory statements abophen you run out arguments. You started a thread about high end media cabal then boasted about dead bodies and knowing where they’re buried since you were part of it but get pissed off when I point out that your old boss was the head of the cabal you try to turn it around and make it about me, pretty evasive. I was never part of this cabal but according to your own admission you were, don’t make it about me.

I’m close friends with J. Glads (no need to use his full name!) and privy to more than you think also been to Sea Cliff more than once. The back room always had 3-4 systems literally thrown on floor plugged into floor outlets humming and buzzing like crazy and then I’d either read the typical glowing review if it was one his friend companies or an underhanded negative one for those who didn’t kiss the ring.
My criticism of the HP and TAS had nothing to do with any product it was about the content and presenting made up crap as the gospel. This thread is about high end media cabal and your boss was at the head of it, boasting about buried bodies puts you there too so don’t turn it around and try to evade by making it personal and about me. I was never part of your mess and in fact very critical of it for a very long time.

david

 

[ddk]

Your grounding methods for the electrical plan are also just magic, nothing else. We respected your magic, can't you respect others magic?

Bullshit! One has nothing to do with the other and you know it. Never made any claims of magic in a box either.

david

 

[tima]

Tim,

This is yet another thoughtful post from you. If I may address two issues. First, I am not aware of any payola arrangements for a TAS review since I have been involved. Robert Harley is no-nonsense on any whiff of an ethical conflict or any appearance of impropriety. He has let go reviewers that have crossed the line. I would add that I have never been approached with a bribe during the years I reviewed for Part-Time Audiophile or Headphone Guru.

Second, it is indeed impossible to have a subscriber funded magazine as the hobby is simply too small to support it. The best we can do is create a “chinese wall” between the sales staff and editorial staff.

Thanks Lee. As a reviewer, from that perspective, I cannot think of a single manufacturer or dealer who sought to influence the subjective listening portion of any of my reviews. I would be surprised if that happened - as far as I know, they know the rules. I'm at a point where I am solicited for reviews and choose what I write about, and only review products that I want to try. There is no quid pro quo; in my discussion with manufacturers, distributors and dealers, no one has asked if advertising is a pre-condition.

From my experience I write the review, submit it to the manufacturer to check for technical accuracy, submit it to my publisher for editing (very rare), and the review gets published, sometimes immediately. (Only once did an editor/publisher try to juice up a conclusion and upon that I left the publication.) Whatever discussions the publisher or sales people have with the product provider is wholly unknown to me and I've never had a product provider come back to me to say they were pressured to purchase advertising. Of course I expect a publisher or sales person to describe their advertising policy and costs to a manufacturer.

I understand there are reports to the contrary I read about that in this thread. Not all publications are the same. No ad, no review, with ads an expectation of a positive review - expectation is one thing, but I've never been told to write a positive review. But, based on my exerience, I believe you about the wall between sales and editorial. Harley is too smart a guy not to enforce that. Publications are a business effort. (Even a casual web-zine has expenses.) High-end audio is a business, plain and simple. I wish more hobbyists and audiophiles recognized and accepted that fact.

The reviewing community does need better writers - or at least better editors who won't publish some of the schlock I see allowed in print.

 

[christoph]

I saw this after just posting my reply to Bonzo. I will try to respect your wishes; I hope that Bonzo can be satisfied with my reply and does not further drag this out in a way that makes further replies unavoidable.

There is always the PM function if necessary

 

[bonzo75]

much of this is pandemic pull forward demand, stimulus, and forced savings. now with rampant audio inflation, it will be interesting to see what next year's results are - my speakers moved from $36k last year to $52k this week.

Are they made from wheat and oil?

 

[christoph]

Are they made from wheat and oil?

...or even...
...a compound of wheat, oil and toilet paper?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

much of this is pandemic pull forward demand, stimulus, and forced savings. now with rampant audio inflation, it will be interesting to see what next year's results are - my speakers moved from $36k last year to $52k this week.

Are they made from wheat and oil?

try to buy a boat right now, or a Porsche or Ferrari........20-30-50% premium over 24 months ago.

pandemic travel and entertainment restrictions inflated demand for these solitary pastimes, and discretionary income build up ballooned the buying power. profits for many industry is through the roof. in the car business i'm in, with pandemic restrictions for production, volume is down by 1/3rd, but net profits for dealers at much lower volumes have doubled. it's crazy.

high end audio had the same surge for the same reasons. people want to stay home but indulge their lusts. and they mostly can more easily afford it.

 

[PeterA]

I am reminded again, as we discuss what influences the hobby, what Camille Paglia (feminist and social critic) said about Hugh Hefner—that what he tried to bring to american men was some sense of style and refinement to the art of seduction. I recall specifically she mentioned, at that time, it would include getting a woman back home and dropping the needle on “a fine stereo system”, mixing a cocktail, etc.

So there was, at the time a general sense that having a nice stereo was somehow “sophisticated”. here and there in television you still see it, the hotshot lawyer in “suits” had a turntable and record collection in his spanky office. Harry “Bosch“ in that tv series was a jazz lover and spin vinyl. (Perhaps an effort by the writers to give his personality a deeper, sophisticated layer?)

Has hookup culture, Wokeness, and radical feminism killed the stereo?

Nice post Bob. Camille Paglia is a sharp social critic and is spot on here in my opinion. I think Tannoy try to make a similar “lifestyle statement“ with some of their speaker advertisements.

I am not sure young man aspire to such things anymore. High End Audio seems more an individual hobby than a lifestyle and activity shared with others. Sophistication may not be a value anymore.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sophistication may not be a value anymore.

not on social media or in popular commentary for sure.

but that's not reality anyway. reality is local in your own space. and sophistication can be alive and well there.....we each define it for ourselves.

 

[rbbert]

The reviewing community does need better writers - or at least better editors who won't publish some of the schlock I see allowed in print.

I have more trouble with the content than the writing of most reviews (and reviewers).

 

[andromedaaudio]

No comment needed on your horn rant. Everybody can be their own judge of your post, based on my previous statements of what I actually claimed contra your accusations.

Al you can always comment on my vids ' be it positive or negative .
This should be " the state of the industry" afaic

 

[Al M.]

Al you can always comment on my vids ' be it positive or negative .
This should be " the state of the industry" afaic

Thanks, but I'll pass. I may comment on the music sometime. You play some nice examples.

 

[microstrip]

Bullshit! One has nothing to do with the other and you know it. Never made any claims of magic in a box either.

david

Strong words and permanently making erroneous guesses on other people knowledge, your favorite way to not defend your opinion, does not add to discussions.

Although they look apparently different mains grounding and "grounding" boxes are related. Before I go on, do you know what is impedance or should I start with it? Resistance is not enough to address these matters.

BTW, by magic I refer to aspects that we feel that improve stereo sound and can't have a rational technical explanation.

 

[Lee]

much of this is pandemic pull forward demand, stimulus, and forced savings. now with rampant audio inflation, it will be interesting to see what next year's results are - my speakers moved from $36k last year to $52k this week.

Parts prices are going up like crazy due to supply chain issues and the development of an ultra-luxury segment, the latter of which is a good thing.