...or even...
...a compound of wheat, oil and toilet paper?
Eco-conscious paper in oil capacitors...
...or was that a sly comment on the magic components found in grounding boxes?
State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
Eco-conscious paper in oil capacitors...
...or was that a sly comment on the magic components found in grounding boxes?
Just words Francisco chosen in response to what I read. I really don’t see the connection between the two.
david
Im currently designing gender neutral loudspeakers with a CO2 filter in the bassreflex pipe.Eco-conscious paper in oil capacitors...
...or was that a sly comment on the magic components found in grounding boxes?
They are composite material Lol
Its a recycled plastic/ toilet paper composite.
Gotta do some something to reel in those EU subsidies.
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Jeez, I don't tune in to a thread for a hundred posts or so and I'm left slack-jawed. The multiple pissing contests between many of my favorite people on this thread have more subplots than two years worth of a good TV show! I may not watch TV again until the fall, or however long it takes me to catch up. It's entertaining as hell. Just remember, nobody really give's a shit about this stuff as much as we do as it really means very little in the grand scheme of things. Be as witty, sarcastic, smart, silly, humble, humorous, kind or as arrogant as you wish. Just be respectful please. Carry on, gentlemen.
Oh Marty, we're all trying to be faux outrageous to catch young people's attention. I've heard they think we're all a bunch of boring old farts.
And what we consider sophisticated is considered old people acting silly by most younger people ! Audio and mating habits have changed over the years !
Streaming your music and finding your next casual partner can be done simultaneously these days !This might just be the most on topic statement in recent memory.
Absolved of burgeoning theme on hippie ethics birthing trustafarian logic in the marketplace. $2500 organic salads don't assemble themselves any more than $250K preamps.
Marty,
I am happy that you find WBF entertaining.
I think WBF posters are senior enough to do without such type of comments. YMMV.
93m albums or 93m partners, I can't say either appeals.And what we consider sophisticated is considered old people acting silly by most younger people ! Audio and mating habits have changed over the years !
Audiophiles don't mate, they got in a relationship decades ago or are single after the lady confessed their system does not play like an orchestra.
I'm not even going near this one. I don't think it can be topped.
Marty, Lagonda keeps trying to date online, but instead keeps receiving oompah jazz LPs in the post.
You know i love my collection of pre digital Danish/Swedish Jazz ! So much enthusiasm and such limited talent, just happy music !
Names like "Papa Bue's Viking Jazz Band" just says it all ! No online dating for me Marc, i am a analog guy !You know i love my collection of pre digital Danish/Swedish Jazz ! So much enthusiasm and such limited talent, just happy music !
I don't know. Sometimes it's the most senior ones that need reeling in.
Milan I believe they call that being Rooned…And what we consider sophisticated is considered old people acting silly by most younger people ! Audio and mating habits have changed over the years !
This is a fun thread. Of course there are lots of disparate elements being discussed, some of which seem comical side-by-side (heartfelt hand-wringing about the best ways to get the younger generation interested in the hobby, juxtaposed with pages of argument about the motivations of some dude who set up an audio magazine 50 years ago...) As a self selected member of this niche group I can't pretend to have any particular insight into the wide world out there, but plenty that's been said here would be enough to make me think that audio at the high end is strictly for lunatics. I'm starting to come round to Ked's thoughts about never wanting to introduce anyone to this hobby! Not even joking. OK, this is a safe space here, we can argue amongst ourselves until the cows come home and it will probably make zero difference to anyone anywhere, but if our online personas are representative of our interactions with those outside the hobby, then we're the worst ambassadors going...
It strikes me, though, that 2 things can be true at the same time, and we might not like it:
1. this is a golden age for the high end audio industry, 2. the hobby is in decline.
I have a very good relationship with my local dealer, and it's clear that audiophiles do NOT make up his core business. There's more wealth here than ever before, some of it trickles into the high end, and they're selling and installing large scale systems across the board. In some cases the people involved love music, sure, but in many cases they don't, or at least not really. There are good stories of very expensive systems being installed and then the client asking if they could get a selection of 1000 or so albums too, as they don't have anything to play on it. Anyway, that's anecdote rather than data, but my point is that the industry could very well be going fantastically even if the hobby as we know it is in decline.
And in fairness, "the hobby as we know it" is a relic. It's true almost by definition. There's no point in pining for the days when people sat between 2 speakers to actively listen to music. Fact is, that was the ONLY way to listen to music for quite a while, and certainly for the era when most of us were young. Wishing for a return to those days is about as relevant as complaining that music from our youth was much better than music today. It doesn't even matter whether it's true, it's just irrelevant. Music listening patterns have changed. We need to accept that and deal with it. And you know, I think the industry IS dealing with it.
So what do we mean by "this hobby" anyway? Do we mean listening to music? That's happening more than ever, from what I can see. People are listening constantly to a wider selection of music than ever. No problem there. Is it done the way we want? Probably not, but nobody cares about what we want. Wide-ranging music listening and knowledge no longer depends on a collection, or the means to play it. It's available for all, for better or worse.
Do we mean the high-end pursual of the state of the art in sound reproduction? Well that's still happening too, as far as I can tell. While I don't have the funds to play the game, there will always be some who can and who will push things on. It might be niche, but so be it, it doesn't require that many customers. And you know, from the array of new manufacturers and new products I see mentioned here and beyond, the true high end doesn't seem any more niche than before. If anything there are more players than ever.
Do we mean audio as a mainstream hobby, where it's "normal" on some level for people to want better sound, to pay more for better sound, to be "impressed" by better sound and to want to play the game and get involved? Well, to be frank, that's where the real difficulty is, but it's very little to do with what's discussed here on this forum, or in most hi-fi publications. The value proposition for the uninitiated needs to be front and centre, and right now it isn't. Even reading this thread, the sense is that trying to put together a good system for less than 20k is a huge challenge. Sorry lads, but you've lost me already, and I'm on your side. People need to know that they can get good sound, that will allow them to *enjoy music more*, without requiring any special skills (golden ears), at every level of spend. That's the way I started out, the way my friends started out, but it's the opposite of what I see outside of the "What Hifi" magazines of this world. To go off on a short rant: I've seen newbies come in to (other) hifi forums looking for advice, only to be told that they need to sort out the room, the power and the cabling first. Obviously, anyone remotely sensible reading that backs away immediately. It's not that it's not true, it's just tone deaf.
Let's take the Prius/ Porsche analogy mentioned upthread. If the only way you could get into motoring as a hobby was to start with a Porsche, there wouldn't be many playing the game. Of course, the question that motoring enthusiasts ask isn't "how can I buy a Porsche?" (at least, not in the early days for most), ithet's "how can I get more fun out of my Prius budget?" Right now, I don't see the message getting through that there's better sound available outside of the mainstream for not that much more money. I appreciate this is What's Best Forum, and wealth is more normal here than in the wider population, but let's not kids ourselves. If 20k is the bare minimum price of admission to whatever this hobby is, then it's no wonder we think it's in decline!
Still, I have zero answers for any of this, I'm just glad I'm not trying to make any money out of it.
It strikes me, though, that 2 things can be true at the same time, and we might not like it:
1. this is a golden age for the high end audio industry, 2. the hobby is in decline.
I have a very good relationship with my local dealer, and it's clear that audiophiles do NOT make up his core business. There's more wealth here than ever before, some of it trickles into the high end, and they're selling and installing large scale systems across the board. In some cases the people involved love music, sure, but in many cases they don't, or at least not really. There are good stories of very expensive systems being installed and then the client asking if they could get a selection of 1000 or so albums too, as they don't have anything to play on it. Anyway, that's anecdote rather than data, but my point is that the industry could very well be going fantastically even if the hobby as we know it is in decline.
And in fairness, "the hobby as we know it" is a relic. It's true almost by definition. There's no point in pining for the days when people sat between 2 speakers to actively listen to music. Fact is, that was the ONLY way to listen to music for quite a while, and certainly for the era when most of us were young. Wishing for a return to those days is about as relevant as complaining that music from our youth was much better than music today. It doesn't even matter whether it's true, it's just irrelevant. Music listening patterns have changed. We need to accept that and deal with it. And you know, I think the industry IS dealing with it.
So what do we mean by "this hobby" anyway? Do we mean listening to music? That's happening more than ever, from what I can see. People are listening constantly to a wider selection of music than ever. No problem there. Is it done the way we want? Probably not, but nobody cares about what we want. Wide-ranging music listening and knowledge no longer depends on a collection, or the means to play it. It's available for all, for better or worse.
Do we mean the high-end pursual of the state of the art in sound reproduction? Well that's still happening too, as far as I can tell. While I don't have the funds to play the game, there will always be some who can and who will push things on. It might be niche, but so be it, it doesn't require that many customers. And you know, from the array of new manufacturers and new products I see mentioned here and beyond, the true high end doesn't seem any more niche than before. If anything there are more players than ever.
Do we mean audio as a mainstream hobby, where it's "normal" on some level for people to want better sound, to pay more for better sound, to be "impressed" by better sound and to want to play the game and get involved? Well, to be frank, that's where the real difficulty is, but it's very little to do with what's discussed here on this forum, or in most hi-fi publications. The value proposition for the uninitiated needs to be front and centre, and right now it isn't. Even reading this thread, the sense is that trying to put together a good system for less than 20k is a huge challenge. Sorry lads, but you've lost me already, and I'm on your side. People need to know that they can get good sound, that will allow them to *enjoy music more*, without requiring any special skills (golden ears), at every level of spend. That's the way I started out, the way my friends started out, but it's the opposite of what I see outside of the "What Hifi" magazines of this world. To go off on a short rant: I've seen newbies come in to (other) hifi forums looking for advice, only to be told that they need to sort out the room, the power and the cabling first. Obviously, anyone remotely sensible reading that backs away immediately. It's not that it's not true, it's just tone deaf.
Let's take the Prius/ Porsche analogy mentioned upthread. If the only way you could get into motoring as a hobby was to start with a Porsche, there wouldn't be many playing the game. Of course, the question that motoring enthusiasts ask isn't "how can I buy a Porsche?" (at least, not in the early days for most), ithet's "how can I get more fun out of my Prius budget?" Right now, I don't see the message getting through that there's better sound available outside of the mainstream for not that much more money. I appreciate this is What's Best Forum, and wealth is more normal here than in the wider population, but let's not kids ourselves. If 20k is the bare minimum price of admission to whatever this hobby is, then it's no wonder we think it's in decline!
Still, I have zero answers for any of this, I'm just glad I'm not trying to make any money out of it.
Noce essay.
$20k is not the bare minimum. They can get started for as little as $500. Especially true if you are willing to go used.
Youngsters already have a smartphone and a pair of headphones. Add a free trial subscription to one of the music servers And a portable dac and you are up and running. You can grow as your income and taste improve.
Instead of upgrading to the latest i phone they could invest in all in one like the iFi Audio Aurora.
$20k is not the bare minimum. They can get started for as little as $500. Especially true if you are willing to go used.
Youngsters already have a smartphone and a pair of headphones. Add a free trial subscription to one of the music servers And a portable dac and you are up and running. You can grow as your income and taste improve.
Instead of upgrading to the latest i phone they could invest in all in one like the iFi Audio Aurora.
Very well stated on all points. You sir are a refreshing voice of reason.
John Darko is a great presenter for reasonably priced gear and whole systems are way below 20k. I wish there were more like him.
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