State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

[the sound of Tao]

I tried it but got thrown out of my yoga meditation class. Guess horns aren't my Nirvana.

Howie are you connecting to yourself on 4 omms or 8 omms… try attaching your breath to 16 omms… and careful not to wire yourself up in parallel while doing the downward dog… it hertz

 

[the sound of Tao]

yeah, I actually don’t see anyone writing that horn speakers of the only speakers that matter nor that non-horn owners are deaf. That just isn’t true. And it’s hardly every thread. Look up the what’s new tab and you’ll see that most of the discussions are on conventional contemporary cone systems and digital and cables and basketball. Surely some analog source discussions as well.

Always seems to be the people who really don’t like horns who are the ones who keep bringing it up. It’s fairly funny really…

 

[andromedaaudio]

Always seems to be the people who really don’t like horns who are the ones who keep bringing it up. It’s fairly funny really…

Look a forum is interesting if you have diversity .
We need diversity on WBF , different input from different perspectives .
Audio is not a race to a end all be all kind of thing
For me its relaxation and being able of getting your thoughts in a different place .
Its not like you win a olympic medal if your sound is close to the " truth " , whatever that may be

 

[the sound of Tao]

Look a forum is interesting if you have diversity .
We need diversity on WBF

So that’s why exactly he we shouldn’t be stupidly beating up over peoples different preferences, it’s becoming toxic.

 

[Al M.]

So that’s why exactly he we shouldn’t be stupidly beating up over peoples different preferences, it’s becoming toxic.

Yes, it's becoming toxic when one group of people claims absolute superiority of their approach. It's not that all in that camp do it -- you certainly and some others don't -- but a trend is unmistakable. Yes, it is toxic.

 

[andromedaaudio]

So that’s why exactly he we shouldn’t be stupidly beating up over peoples different preferences, it’s becoming toxic.

It works both ways in life

 

[the sound of Tao]

Yes, it's becoming toxic when one group of people claims absolute superiority of their approach. It's not that all in that camp do it -- you certainly and some others don't -- but a trend is unmistakable. Yes, it is toxic.

Al I really like reading about everyone’s different approaches and yes I’m not an absolutist (ever) I suppose if people are driven into one area of belief to then ask them to refrain from discussing their audio passions or their position on it then repression becomes that other side of the coin. I do think it’s become overblown as an issue though and some are not celebrating diversity but just constantly throwing in the torch as well. To be honest I am constantly surprised by how angry some people get over audio.

 

[Al M.]

Al I really like reading about everyone’s different approaches and yes I’m not an absolutist (ever) I suppose if people are driven into one area of belief to then ask them to refrain from discussing their audio passions or their position on it then repression becomes that other side of the coin. I do think it’s become overblown as an issue though and some are not celebrating diversity but just constantly throwing in the torch as well. To be honest I am constantly surprised by how angry some people get over audio.

Graham, no one asks anyone to refrain from discussing their audio passions. Yet please let me point you to this post (#1,478).

 

[awsmone]

Never heard a Cone loaded midbass in horns that does the agility, nuance, ability to breathe bass, that horn loaded midbass does

Westlake Bbs15 , Rey Audio

 

[awsmone]

same (irrelevant) posts of system videos and why horns are the only speakers that matter. Almost every topic (it sometime seems)...

Even though I like horns, and vids, I also have noticed the sudden injection of vids, sometimes with no context into forums, and not even an explanation of what we are listening to, very different from Peter A thread where we were discussing horns and ability to evaluate systems thru vids
as to horns context here, horns are still a vibrant part of the industry, but also a very old technology
my argument is if some and I mean some of these old horn systems sound so good now, have we really advanced so much with these other “advanced” technologies

a lot of the “advances” in audio seem to be in three areas, that were very ordinary to begin with
digital, transistors, and bass reflex , the fact after 40 years they got them to sound better imho, isn’t an advance, when there were alternatives
in fact one of the big trends in audio is reinventing old ideas
R2R. Dac‘S
SIT transistors
low feedback
sealed cabinets
SET tube amps
class A designs , these are very old technologies yet they are all pushed by current well regarded brands

 

[microstrip]

Andromeda asked for more entertainment. How about discussing horns and videos? I remember after posting some videos of my system a complaint from some was that there was far too much room response masking the ambiance on the recording. The room was far too lively. The critique was that the videos sound the same and are garbled by the overly reflective room. Some wrote that they hear my room and not the music. This is particularly fascinating considering the view that horns interact less with the room due to their directionality. The main aspect of horns according to Mirco is that they are directional and cause less room interaction and fewer reflections. Someone even suggested that horns sound better on videos for this very reason: more direct sound, less reflected sound from the room. Micro responded to Al M that the result from horns is less envelopment, less stage, less width and depth.

I actually hear the opposite from the better horn systems I have heard. Tima likely heard the same out in Utah: greater envelopment, greater information about the context or setting of the performance. Greater width and height on some recordings, less sameness. Of course this likely has much to do with the whole system and set up too.

I can not seem to reconcile the different opinions, so I tend to simply share what I hear and what my experience has been. I do not think it is so much about arguing, but rather that people have different experiences and want to share them in a discussion thread hoping to get better insight into the subject and learn something.

How does all this relate to the state of the industry? I'd say that dispersion, efficiency, and other aspects of speaker designs have really changed over time. These affect amplifier designs. This forum reflects an increase in approaches, both in designs and what people are choosing. And videos are one way people are sharing what they have and how manufacturers and media are increasingly promoting new stuff.

Peter,

You own corner speakers, a very particular and rare case. All the arguments usually debated about horns consider them in the free field. Philip Newell, an acoustic engineer (speaker and room designer) http://philipnewell.net/index9.html wrote a lot about the subject. If interested on the subject I suggest you a book I own and have recommended before : https://www.routledge.com/Loudspeak...roduction/Newell-Holland/p/book/9781138554825

 

[microstrip]

You should know you are misleading purposefully as you write. Peter pointed that out too in the context if this discussion alone. This has nothing to do with horns or cones it is your lack of ethics coupled with lack of exposure

Unfortunately either you or Peter are not able to follow a technical discussion or basic wave physics or efficiency. You misunderstand the technical aspects and then consider it misleading.
Fortunately most of our members will be able to follow it, and in case of doubts ask questions or oppose to it.

You can refer to my lack of experience with horns - you are right, but your insulting suggestion of lack of ethics only shows how childish and low grade is your argumentation. Bye.

 

[PeterA]

Yes, it's becoming toxic when one group of people claims absolute superiority of their approach. It's not that all in that camp do it -- you certainly and some others don't -- but a trend is unmistakable. Yes, it is toxic.

Al, I apologize for my role in making this a toxic discussion. I tried not to claim absolute superiority or to denigrate other approaches to the hobby. Regardless, I have decided to leave the thread permanently.

 

[tima]

I tried not to claim absolute superiority or to denigrate other approaches to the hobby

There is no evidence of that at all. No need to apologize.

 

[howiebrou]

Al, I apologize for my role in making this a toxic discussion. I tried not to claim absolute superiority or to denigrate other approaches to the hobby. Regardless, I have decided to leave the thread permanently.

Peter, I don't think you need to leave the thread. You are, if you don't mind me saying, one of the more steady and calm voices here. Yes you have your views but don't we all and isn't that what discussions are all about?

 

[tima]

Always seems to be the people who really don’t like horns who are the ones who keep bringing it up. It’s fairly funny really…

Until it's sad and boring. Same thing happened when we discussed 'natural sound'. Then we had whining about the natural sound crowd. Despite efforts to encourage explications of alternative philosophies or basis of preference, that was not forthcoming. I suppose if you have no guides or principles there is nothing to defend and what's left is to either say nothing or to attack other's points of view.

 

[microstrip]

Until it's sad and boring. Same thing happened when we discussed 'natural sound'. Then we had whining about the natural sound crowd. Despite efforts to encourage explications of alternative philosophies or basis of preference, that was not forthcoming. I suppose if you have no guides or principles there is nothing to defend and what's left is to either say nothing or to attack other's points of view.

Perhaps it is just me, but I deeply dislike when people write a biased summary of threads, particularly if they have been involved in them.

I am always happy to read others own personnel opinions but I am not happy with the usual condescendence of those who write above others ...

 

[awsmone]

There is no evidence of that at all. No need to apologize.

I agree with Tim, I have always interpreted your views PeterA , as reaching your sonic zenith , not some sort of superiority, it may I guess be perceived that way as you discarded some vanguard “advanced” products , in favour of a very different approach
having relistened to your videos on the weekend through a very high quality system, it’s very very clear cut, the evidence is in those videos no need for argument from me anyway

 

[awsmone]

https://www.routledge.com/Loudspeak...roduction/Newell

It sounds interesting and by apparent experts, but I balked at the price at least the ebook version is only $100US

 

[rando]

College textbook pricing. Look offline.