Stepping up in Pass Labs Amp series - aka 600.8 vs 200.8

[sbo6]

You have very good equipment and it shouldn't sound "lifeless". Lots of good suggestions. I would add that if you haven't tried already toe - in creates a fuller and more solid center image and can make music sound bolder and less lifeless. I can't tell how much your speakers are toed in but you might want to try pointing them directly at the sweet spot or pointed just behind it. Also, as I believe others have said the XA series amps get very hot so I'd keep that in mind depending where you live and how big your room is. A final option to make a system sound less lifeless is to add subwoofers which, when integrated well add fullness, impact and can smooth out low frequency dips / peaks. Your speakers will sound twice their physical size. Happy Listening!

 

[Lampie519]

If you are not able to get some more "oomph" in your setup, i would suggest to try (not immidiately buy) a faster preamp. Something in the range of Vacuum State FVP or similar.

 

[MrC.]

Given the efficiency of your speakers and the levels at which you like to listen this is clearly not a power issue. At the levels you listen you are certainly not leaving Class A outside of a few possible peaks and those likely last only fractions of a second. Have you ever auditioned a good tube amp in your rig? In your price range VAC makes some decent monoblocks as well as Lamm, either of which I would suggest you try before moving to another Pass amp. With a tube amp you may be surprised to see what 60W sounds like on your speakers instead of the 600W you are looking at with the Pass. If you have a dealer that has those speakers, in your area, see if you can set up a listening session with a comparably priced tube amp before anything else.

 

[cal3713]

If you are not able to get some more "oomph" in your setup, i would suggest to try (not immidiately buy) a faster preamp. Something in the range of Vacuum State FVP or similar.

I'm with you. I think I'd try different PREs first if I were in this situation. I have read good things about the LTA preamps... OTL and tube based. Could be a good combination with the pass amp.

 

[cal3713]

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...zotl-preamplifier-zotl40-reference-amplifier/

"The Microzotl is a really good preamp. It is an open window of transparency; with fast transient performance, excellent drive, and a high level of dynamic swing. It has a quiet black background, lacks obvious coloration, and is coherent to the point of being dang near unflappable."

"I've lived with the Pass XA 30.8 for a number of years now, and I can say with all honesty, that when driven by the MZ, it sounded better than I've ever heard it. Staging is cavernous, with a high degree of detail, and resolution. The MZ drives the Pass' fast transients, bottomless bass, and soaring treble with impeccable musicality."

 

[AThrillOfHope]

Interesting. Because "100 watts Class A" was so striking, I went back and checked again. Especially so since the early review of the X600.8 in PartTimeAudiophile specifies only 50 watts max in Class A. So what gives?

I believe the 100 Watts exit point for pure Class A is based on 4 ohm output.

The X600.8 is rated at 600 watts @ 8 ohms, and 1200 watts @ 4 ohms. The vast majority (it seems to me) of speakers operate at 4 ohms, and so this is where most people discuss output.

So at 8 ohms, the X600.8 leaves pure Class A at 50 watts, but at 4 ohms it does not leave pure Class A until 100 watts. So if your speakers are rated for 4 ohms, you would not leave pure Class A until 100 watts, I believe.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Welcome to WBF, AThrillofHope!

 

[RikkiPoo]

I have XA60.8's driving Maggie 3.7i's with REL subs. Very life like. I will attest the the effect of pre-amps. Currently working my way up the Allnic line with the L-7000 SE. Great synergy with Pass. The Pass XA60.8's keep sounding better with each pre-amp upgrade.

I don't get the need for more power. The needles aren't moving at all at the max listening level I enjoy. I can make the needles move but its just loud.

 

[Ikhuong]

It is pretty much speakers and Pass labs stack are not on the same page in synergy.
I also got same lifeless feeling when I changed my speakers from PMC25.26 to Gauder Akustik Cassiano 2 which were driven by Pass labs X250.5 and xp-20 pre.

so nothing is wrong with speakers or Pass labs design, their synergy are just not matching together,

my problem was sold when I tried another amp and preamp for Gauder speakers. i sold Gauder speakers to get Cube Nenuphar and now I am back to Pass Labs stack again but this time with First Watt Sit-3 and Xp-12, beautiful synergy

 

[cal3713]

It is pretty much speakers and Pass labs stack are not on the same page in synergy.
I also got same lifeless feeling when I changed my speakers from PMC25.26 to Gauder Akustik Cassiano 2 which were driven by Pass labs X250.5 and xp-20 pre.

so nothing is wrong with speakers or Pass labs design, their synergy are just not matching together,

my problem was sold when I tried another amp and preamp for Gauder speakers. i sold Gauder speakers to get Cube Nenuphar and now I am back to Pass Labs stack again but this time with First Watt Sit-3 and Xp-12, beautiful synergy

Excellent post. Always good to remind ourselves that they are called systems for a reason.

Tough to even remember that yourself as you try equipment... until you change speakers and everything changes.

 

[Audire]

I run Pass 260.8s which run Class A to 34 watts and a XP-22. I never leave Class A. Sounds absolutely divine on Magico A3s (which may be updated to M3s soon) .... I live in sunny FL (if we aren't getting hit by a hurricane) but too much heat with the 260.8s isn't a problem.

 

[Alpha121]

Have listened to many Pass amplifiers in the past. In my opinion, they are generally very “lifeless”, would strongly recommend changing to another more dynamic amplifier brand.

Sorry, but this is really uninformed BS. I have very similar speakers to the original poster, and it's a matter of getting the right amplifiers on them. Characterizing Pass amps as 'lifeless' without addressing system matching is naive. I'm running Pass Labs XA160.8's on my Focal Scala Utopia Evo's and its extraordinary.

BTW, this is the fourth amp I tried before I was successful. I also used Pass Labs XA30.8's, X600.5's as well as others. The speaker positioning and cabling were held constant throughout.

 

[Jpspock]

Same for me , my Sasha daw with xa160.5 are extraordinary, and certainly not lifeless…