Stillpoints Ultra 6 v's Critical Mass Systems Centre Stage 2

[tima]

I’d agree that it’s important to be able to make judgements in assessment but also better is such a spotty and variable (and at times) abused word especially when it’s sitting open and naked and clear of any guiding context. I’ve heard some people’s better and thought more wtf than what’s best.... and not everyone writes as carefully as you or goes the extra mile to help qualify their determinations in the criteria of their best.

Just way too many see their preference as being some kind of an absolute and then ruthlessly bash us with it at every post. Latitude in this pursuit is good thing.

Well, sure. Merely saying X is better than Y is insufficient to establish the truth of such a claim. Which is why I mentioned evaluation based on merit. There can be a variety of criteria for evaluation of something based on what it is and what is expected from it. In audiophile-world a chunk of that comes from listening. Given that, what "sounds better" can be a matter of personal preference. Nonetheless a person should be able to describe their preferences if they want their evaluation to have any explanatory power. Otherwise one is just another graduate from The Mick Jagger School of Art Criticism: "I ain't no schoolboy but I know what I like." (Brown Sugar)

 

[the sound of Tao]

Well yes... no argument there.

 

[joelavrencik]

What is inside the Critical Mass Systems Centre Stage 2 and what method of vibration control do they use?

Hi Stump

I come in peace. It would be quite inappropriate for me to comment on the functionality of Stillpoints. I will say that I’ve spoken with Bruce Jacobs many times at shows and he’s a great intellect and a really nice guy.

Center Stage2 as Steve correctly said, is based on the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, specifically transferring entropy out of the component. There is of course, some 1st Law in it but this is as limited as possible. It is a completely different approach than every other foot on the market that I know of.

The idea of the feet is to help a component function as close to its design potential as possible without leaving a thumbprint on its performance and/or engineering. They work equally well with solid state and tube components. They do not work with components that have an acrylic bottom or a bottom plate that is over-damped by the manufacturer.

Soulution uses CS2 on every component they manufacture and has been doing so for years. In fact, you could say we developed the feet specifically for them. I took Center Stage to Steve’s house and put them in his system to get his opinion………..he convinced me to sell these retail and asked to represent them.

I hope this helps.

 

[Popspin]

My response is not a direct reply to the question but given the lack of answers, I’ll offer this brief reply:
I used Stillpoint SS’s for 5 years. I liked them very much in the beginning because they made the center image float and offered additional clarity and some more bass emphasis. Over time I noticed what Steve heard with the loss of ambiance. I also heard a metallic harshness which forced me to keep the volume lower than desired on some tracks.
That metallic sound eventually drove me crazy. I switched to the CS2 and after a break-in period the metallic harshness was gone. Ambiance was still there. The center image floated again and the overall presentation was much more relaxed.
I am using the devices under a power conditioner, streamer, blue ray player and pre-pro.

 

[Barry2013]

Hi all. Looking for opinions on the above vibration control footers. Has anyone compared both in their system and found a preference?

I'm swayed towards the CS2s simply because I find them less intrusive and they are available in different heights (the weight of a component makes no difference). The U6s with the additional base plates elevate the component too much and just looks awful imo but of course, if I'm going to spend this sort of money then I could live with this if the U6s are better.

I understand this is subjective of course but the CMS feet seem to be highly praised which is another positive in my mind.

Interested to hear other's views

Thanks for starting this thread.
Very relevant to me.
I recently got a Vitus 030 which is sitting on my 4 Ultra 5s and have been debating whether to replace them with Ultra 6s or CS 1.5s with no conclusion to date so will watch this thread with great interest.

 

[Barry2013]

Thanks for starting this thread.
Very relevant to me.
I recently got a Vitus 030 which is sitting on my 4 Ultra 5s and have been debating whether to replace them with Ultra 6s or CS 1.5s with no conclusion to date so will watch this thread with great interest.

Today I replaced the 4 Ultra 5s under my Vitus 030 with four Stillpoints Ultra 6V2s (cw with bases) and the system has been playing most of the day.
The resultant improvement was apparent immediately and got better as the day wore on. More air and space to the sound. Noise floor dropped from its already low level. Soundstage wider and higher. A more relaxed and truer sound on all three sources, turntable, cdp and FM tuner.
No trace of metallic sounds. Quite the contrary.
I have not heard the CMS footers so cannot comment upon them, but having heard the Ultra 6s I don't feel any need to do so as they work a treat in my system under the 030.

 

[Steve Williams]

Today I replaced the 4 Ultra 5s under my Vitus 030 with four Stillpoints Ultra 6V2s (cw with bases) and the system has been playing most of the day.
The resultant improvement was apparent immediately and got better as the day wore on. More air and space to the sound. Noise floor dropped from its already low level. Soundstage wider and higher. A more relaxed and truer sound on all three sources, turntable, cdp and FM tuner.
No trace of metallic sounds. Quite the contrary.
I have not heard the CMS footers so cannot comment upon them, but having heard the Ultra 6s I don't feel any need to do so as they work a treat in my system under the 030.

Only question I ask if you is what you think of the ambient sound when you use Stillpoints. My experience is that SP’s rob the system
of ambient sound thus losing a feeling of “presence”. Such is not the case with Center Stage. Of course I have a bias as I have used the first only to use CS2 footers and liked them so much I represent the product

 

[Barry2013]

Only question I ask if you is what you think of the ambient sound when you use Stillpoints. My experience is that SP’s rob the system
of ambient sound thus losing a feeling of “presence”. Such is not the case with Center Stage. Of course I have a bias as I have used the first only to use CS2 footers and liked them so much I represent the product

Thanks Steve.
A good question.
A key thing I have learnt over the years is the different ways in which different components, cables and tweaks change the sound of your system. With the right choices the changes are for the better such as in my case moving from Naim amplification (500/552) to Vitus SIA 025 and then to the current 030. I also remember some years ago trying the then top of the range Tellurium cables. Initially I was attracted to them but after a few days I noticed they were imparting a sheen to the sound which was an unwelcome difference. I also had an Esoteric SACD player for a while which again was noticeably different but too bright and clinical for my tastes and I moved to the DCS Scarlatti which I much preferred.
The Ultra6V2s have not changed the fundamental character of the sound of my system, but they have improved it as I described. The ambient sound is better with more air and to my ears greater fidelity.A live FM broadcst this evening of Beethoven's Diabelli Variations sounded very much in the room and earlier the Dvorak Cello Concerto played by Jacqueline Du Pre on the EMI vinyl box set had a wonderful bodied sound with just the right amount of richness to it.
As I said earlier I cannot comment upon the CMS footers not having heard them and I am happy that you and many others are very pleased with them. The reports I have read suggest that they do change the character of the sound of a system and I am not looking for that sort of change, but these are obviously matters of personal taste.
The Ultra6V2s also are not visually very intrusive whereas the CMS 1.5s, which I would need for the Vitus 030 amp, would be more noticeable. Not a make or break issue but a factor.
I hope that is helpful and that you are keeping safe and well. The Delta variant is hitting us hard at the moment, largely younger unvaccinated people, despite the overall very big progress with vaccination.

 

[Steve Williams]

I totally understand. My only reason to comment was that I’ve had my entire system on SP’s and I’ve had my entire system on CMS feet and for me ambient sound is something that I feel is essential to the music in order to achieve a sense of presence

BTW I agree that so many things are system dependent so do enjoy. That’s what this hobby is all about

 

[Duckworp]

Thanks Steve.
A good question.
A key thing I have learnt over the years is the different ways in which different components, cables and tweaks change the sound of your system. With the right choices the changes are for the better such as in my case moving from Naim amplification (500/552) to Vitus SIA 025 and then to the current 030. I also remember some years ago trying the then top of the range Tellurium cables. Initially I was attracted to them but after a few days I noticed they were imparting a sheen to the sound which was an unwelcome difference. I also had an Esoteric SACD player for a while which again was noticeably different but too bright and clinical for my tastes and I moved to the DCS Scarlatti which I much preferred.
The Ultra6V2s have not changed the fundamental character of the sound of my system, but they have improved it as I described. The ambient sound is better with more air and to my ears greater fidelity.A live FM broadcst this evening of Beethoven's Diabelli Variations sounded very much in the room and earlier the Dvorak Cello Concerto played by Jacqueline Du Pre on the EMI vinyl box set had a wonderful bodied sound with just the right amount of richness to it.
As I said earlier I cannot comment upon the CMS footers not having heard them and I am happy that you and many others are very pleased with them. The reports I have read suggest that they do change the character of the sound of a system and I am not looking for that sort of change, but these are obviously matters of personal taste.
The Ultra6V2s also are not visually very intrusive whereas the CMS 1.5s, which I would need for the Vitus 030 amp, would be more noticeable. Not a make or break issue but a factor.
I hope that is helpful and that you are keeping safe and well. The Delta variant is hitting us hard at the moment, largely younger unvaccinated people, despite the overall very big progress with vaccination.

As I mentioned on the Vitus thread, interestingly neither stillpoints nor CMS made any difference at all to my SIA030. Though I have the rack on Townshend Seismic corners (making the rack ‘float’) and I wonder if this negates the effects or need for further component feet.

 

[LL21]

For my own experience, after seeing Barry2013 insights,:

- pretty much anytime I had an Ultra 5, the Ultra 6 was better. Namely, the Ultra 6 did not present with the slightly sharpening/thinning of certain upper mid depth of the piano keyboard in our system which drove me absolutely insane when I put them in at 3am many, many years ago...and only figured out that an HRS Nimbus inbetween would categorically solve that without losing the resolution that the Ultra 5s bring
- Furthermore, the Ultra 6 leaves the system feeling more resolved, more relaxed and generally just more easily in control of reproduction
- I pretty much ended up with a global swap of Ultra 5s for Ultra 6s...still keeping the HRS Nimbus since I had them

- As for Steve's question about ambience...I remember distinctly that the sense of venue was not ostensibly changed, except as described here.
- What DID happen is that the boundaries of the existing venue stayed throughout the music. My rough guess is that in a complex passage, the system does not always hold it all together, and then the outermost boundaries start to come in/break apart because the system is starting to mingle those super-subtle, refined spacial cues and elements of air and space. But the Ultra 6s fought back against some of that vibration, enabling the system to keep more of those very out-on-the-edge transient information which placed those borders back in position more robustly

To Duckworp's point, the one area where (relative to our old place) we did NOT find massive benefit in EITHER the Ultra 5s or 6s was the Gryphon amp. I think it is due to the floor structure...the older one did tend to sing with the sub and the system a bit...and it took a lot of good isolation to resolve that. Here, I think that for the source and pre, they make a huge improvement...but for the Gryphon which is also exceptionally well built, the Ultra 6s were not at all a must have.

Having moved to the Robert Koda K160 monos...it will be interesting to see what happens. Robert Koch appears to have been meticulous beyond belief with every design element...hand-wiring everything (point to point?), encasing each piece separately inside the amps with different metal shields, providing thoughtful design solutions for ventilating the 230 Watt pure Class A amp, (1100 watts of power continuous from the wall!), etc. I also believe his meticulous attention to detail relates to isolation...that said, I note that Audio Exotics in HK still uses SRA platforms with their K160s.

 

[Thieliste]

Hi guys, i'm seriously considering 2 sets of CS2 for my Aqua LinQ and Aqua Formula xHD.
I guess under sources this is where it will make a substantial difference.

 

[Cellcbern]

The Dalby Audio isolation feet are the best I've heard and are on a whole different level compared to any model of Stillpoints or Critical Mass Systems footer I've heard (I have the Dalby D7-LVSE Lignum Vitae feet under my Modwright-Marantz SA8005). The sound of Stillpoints (and every other metal footer I've heard) reminds me a little of the sound of Rhodium plated connectors - there is a slight hardness and clinicality to the sound. It appears from the posts at Audio Exotics and other Asian sites that the Dalby footers are considered by many Asian audiophiles to be the world's best. I have heard nothing (including isolation platforms) that comes close. The ASI Topline Feet (which I also have) are my 2nd choice. I have heard raves about the Harmonix TU666 Maestro footers but have not listened to them.

FYI: https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/9807/dalby-audio-design/p1

 

[LL21]

The Dalby Audio isolation feet are the best I've heard and are on a whole different level compared to any model of Stillpoints or Critical Mass Systems footer I've heard (I have the Dalby D7-LVSE Lignum Vitae feet under my Modwright-Marantz SA8005). The sound of Stillpoints (and every other metal footer I've heard) reminds me a little of the sound of Rhodium plated connectors - there is a slight hardness and clinicality to the sound. It appears from the posts at Audio Exotics and other Asian sites that the Dalby footers are considered by many Asian audiophiles to be the world's best. I have heard nothing that comes close. The ASI Topline Feet (which I also have) are my 2nd choice. I have heard raves about the Harmonix TU666 Maestro footers but have not listened to them.

Very very interesting. Would love to hear them. I have heard good things about Lignum Vitae wood/feet from people who have heard them.

As a big fan of Ultra 6s (and before that 5s), I would also agree with your assessment, specifically suggesting that I heard a slight thinness/hardness to Middle C which I dont like...it drove me crazy until 3am the Friday I put them in. I tried so many combinations...going back and forth with, without, with HRS...and then at 3am, I elected to put HRS Nimbus Couplers ON TOP of the Ultra 5s (at the time, 5s)...and THEN put the component down.

Voila. Clarity, depth...and Middle C came back with tonal depth, natural organic qualities and great decay...but also with that detail which the Nimbus Couplers from HRS could not deliver on their own. All our Ultra 6s use HRS Nimbus Couplers in the system.

 

[Cellcbern]

Very very interesting. Would love to hear them. I have heard good things about Lignum Vitae wood/feet from people who have heard them.

As a big fan of Ultra 6s (and before that 5s), I would also agree with your assessment, specifically suggesting that I heard a slight thinness/hardness to Middle C which I dont like...it drove me crazy until 3am the Friday I put them in. I tried so many combinations...going back and forth with, without, with HRS...and then at 3am, I elected to put HRS Nimbus Couplers ON TOP of the Ultra 5s (at the time, 5s)...and THEN put the component down.

Voila. Clarity, depth...and Middle C came back with tonal depth, natural organic qualities and great decay...but also with that detail which the Nimbus Couplers from HRS could not deliver on their own. All our Ultra 6s use HRS Nimbus Couplers in the system.

I also prefer the much less expensive ASI Topline feet (which I previously had on my player), a similar design to the Dalby, to all of the metal footers I've heard including every Stillpoints model. Both the Dalby and ASI feet appear to simultaneously drain resonances from a component and tune the component's overall resonance. The Dalby feet in particular improve every parameter - clarity, prat, imaging, soundstaging, timbre/tonality - you name it. The Harmonix, which I haven't heard, are a very different design which appears to focus solely on resonance tuning, although it is very highly regarded. For me the Critical Mass Systems footers over-damp some components, draining some of the harmonics and life out of the music. Don't recall if it was the original or version two of the Centre Stage footer I heard - it may have been the earlier one so the new one may be better.

 

[Cellcbern]

Very very interesting. Would love to hear them. I have heard good things about Lignum Vitae wood/feet from people who have heard them.

As a big fan of Ultra 6s (and before that 5s), I would also agree with your assessment, specifically suggesting that I heard a slight thinness/hardness to Middle C which I dont like...it drove me crazy until 3am the Friday I put them in. I tried so many combinations...going back and forth with, without, with HRS...and then at 3am, I elected to put HRS Nimbus Couplers ON TOP of the Ultra 5s (at the time, 5s)...and THEN put the component down.

Voila. Clarity, depth...and Middle C came back with tonal depth, natural organic qualities and great decay...but also with that detail which the Nimbus Couplers from HRS could not deliver on their own. All our Ultra 6s use HRS Nimbus Couplers in the system.

Note that the most recent Dalby isolation feet combine Lignum Vitae wood with carbon fiber:

Dalby Audio Lignum Vitae D7-CBF Dalby Audio Design Lignum Vitae D7-CBF Carbon Fibre Isolation Feet (1 set of 3)

High Performance Audio Listings & Portal

www.audiog.com

Haven't heard these.

 

[Cellcbern]

Here's another alternative - Wellfloat:

Well Float - A new game changer on mechanical vibration management

Last Saturday, I attended a debut audition session of Wagner Silver Signature pairing with one XiangYu subwoofer.

audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com

Haven't heard their products.

 

[Thieliste]

You guys probably never heard of this brand but if you want something that works at a reasonable price check this Fench product : https://www.robolidesign.com/music-stand

 

[scot]

Hi guys (& gals)

I did a shootout in my own system and found the results interesting to say the least. I tried to keep the variables to a minimum. I wanted to take this very seriously because these cost a lot of money.

The three name brands in this shootout were Stillpoints (5’s). I didn’t have the 6’s on hand. The Critical Mass Systems CMS2’s and the newer Wilson Pedestals. I used only one set at a time and under only one component at a time, the preamp.

Part of the problem is the Wilson and the Stillpoints give imeadiate results. The CMS2’s require a “settling in” time of 7-10 days which I made sure to give them. I wonder how many impatient audiophiles listened to a set of the CMS2 footers and didn’t give them the required time to settle in and dismissed them in a few days?

I played the same 5 cd’s and the same songs for each set. Here is what I heard in my system.

The Stillpoints did tighten up the bass and in general “cleaned” things up. However, they seemed to rob the sound of the tonal color and I found the timbre was not as accurate. The sound took on a thinner more sterile quality. Typical results, both some good and some bad.

Next up was the Wilson Pedestals. These were a little more difficult to figure out. I did notice hearing slightly more information that the Stillpoints missed. Most audiophiles feel that if they hear things in the mix that were previously masked with another device, it must be better. Although I did hear slightly more in the mix, the sound got a little rougher. I noticed an edgy quality that I didn’t hear with the Stillpoints.

I then put in four of the CMS2 feet and about 7 days later with a cd on repeat I grabbed my trusty five test cd’s and started listening critically. To my ears, the presentation was very clean, clear and more open. The system took on this relaxed and more inviting quality that the other footers just didn’t have. The sound, from top to bottom had this unforced, effortless quality that drew me into the music. The other footers did the exact opposite. I heard all positive attributes with the CMS2 footers with no negative effects whatsoever.

I noticed that the effect was cumulative. I bought a set of four feet and put them under the preamp. I bought a 2nd set and put those under the dac. The 3rd set went under the transport (remember those). Every time I added another set it took the system to another level. The CMS2 feet are unquestionably expensive and if you can’t afford them, don’t demo them! I know I could never be without them. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi guys (& gals)

I did a shootout in my own system and found the results interesting to say the least. I tried to keep the variables to a minimum. I wanted to take this very seriously because these cost a lot of money.

The three name brands in this shootout were Stillpoints (5’s). I didn’t have the 6’s on hand. The Critical Mass Systems CMS2’s and the newer Wilson Pedestals. I used only one set at a time and under only one component at a time, the preamp.

Part of the problem is the Wilson and the Stillpoints give imeadiate results. The CMS2’s require a “settling in” time of 7-10 days which I made sure to give them. I wonder how many impatient audiophiles listened to a set of the CMS2 footers and didn’t give them the required time to settle in and dismissed them in a few days?

I played the same 5 cd’s and the same songs for each set. Here is what I heard in my system.

The Stillpoints did tighten up the bass and in general “cleaned” things up. However, they seemed to rob the sound of the tonal color and I found the timbre was not as accurate. The sound took on a thinner more sterile quality. Typical results, both some good and some bad.

Next up was the Wilson Pedestals. These were a little more difficult to figure out. I did notice hearing slightly more information that the Stillpoints missed. Most audiophiles feel that if they hear things in the mix that were previously masked with another device, it must be better. Although I did hear slightly more in the mix, the sound got a little rougher. I noticed an edgy quality that I didn’t hear with the Stillpoints.

I then put in four of the CMS2 feet and about 7 days later with a cd on repeat I grabbed my trusty five test cd’s and started listening critically. To my ears, the presentation was very clean, clear and more open. The system took on this relaxed and more inviting quality that the other footers just didn’t have. The sound, from top to bottom had this unforced, effortless quality that drew me into the music. The other footers did the exact opposite. I heard all positive attributes with the CMS2 footers with no negative effects whatsoever.

I noticed that the effect was cumulative. I bought a set of four feet and put them under the preamp. I bought a 2nd set and put those under the dac. The 3rd set went under the transport (remember those). Every time I added another set it took the system to another level. The CMS2 feet are unquestionably expensive and if you can’t afford them, don’t demo them! I know I could never be without them. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

I'm so happy you are enjoying the Center Stage feet as they are IMO system changers. and yes the effect is cumulative with each set added to a system

I have a total of 72 CS2 and LS 1.5's under my entire system. They have brought me to a point where all I do now is listen as I have lost all desires to add or make changes to my system. I also agree about Stillpoints. In my system they robbed all of the ambient sound which for me is essential for that feeling of presence in the music. With Center Stage it becomes a "you are there performance" Of course I am biased as I represent this product