Stillpoints Ultra 6 v's Critical Mass Systems Centre Stage 2

[Cellcbern]

For my part, in studying the design of the Dolby footers I feel that given the minimalist contact area of the metal spike and ceramic hemispheres that they gravitate more in the direction of resonance control through de coupling that the Mook design methodology in that the latter enhances harmonic resonance and thereby bring a somewhat fuller , more texturally dense, liquid projection of the recording than cleaning those harmonics up, tone controls if you will, tho highly organic and satisfying.ones.

The ASI Top Line feet appear to be a similar design to the Dalby (see photo). The puzzle is that despite appearing to be resonance drainers, both also seem to impart a more natural, organic sound (sympathetic resonance?). Not sure how that works given the minimal contact area.

From Marshall Nack's June 2012 PFO review of the Monk Audio Phono Preamp:

".......ASI Footers: Slipping a trio of these footers under the Monk is like spending an additional couple of thousand dollars for a more expensive, tubed phono preamp. The solid-state signature becomes virtually undetectable......".


Impressions ​

 

[LL21]

And then you have the legendary HRS (one of my favorite designers in passive isolation) with their vortex with their elastomer on top in an aluminum hull brought down to a point and then presumably transferred down into the granite base:

 

[allvinyl]

All our Ultra 6s use HRS Nimbus Couplers in the system.

So, you put a coupler on top of the U6 between the U6 and the component?

 

[allvinyl]

All our Ultra 6s use HRS Nimbus Couplers in the system.

I also meant to ask if I was to try this, in your experience under which component should I start? I currently have U6V1 under my CD player, preamp, amplifier, phono, power conditioner, and tuner. I just spoke with Paul about upgrading them all to V2.

 

[LL21]

I also meant to ask if I was to try this, in your experience under which component should I start? I currently have U6V1 under my CD player, preamp, amplifier, phono, power conditioner, and tuner. I just spoke with Paul about upgrading them all to V2.

Great stuff! I did not realize there was a U6V2...what is the difference?

As for components, my answer (besides 'it depends!') is that greatest impact in order was from the most to least in our system:
- DAC (but it is the Zanden tubed DAC)
- Preamp (originally tubed now SS)
- Speakers (U5s)
- Velodyne DD18+
- DAC PSU
- Power Conditioner
- Transport PSU
- Network boxes of Transparent speaker cables
- Tripoint Troy
- Transport (Zanden clearly did a good job with the Transport and its acrylic/aluminum ziggurat sandwich construction!)
- Amp (originally Gryphon now Robert Koda K160 monos soon-to-be installed)

 

[allvinyl]

Great stuff! I did not realize there was a U6V2...what is the difference?

Yes, there is a version 2 Ultra 6. The technology pocket is "re-configured" and has been introduced into all Ultra products that have technology pockets as V2 products. I am hoping to audition U6V2 in my system soon.

 

[LL21]

I have heard there is now a Stillpoints Ultra 7 for speakers! All those who have tried them apparently have kept them.

 

[LL21]

Yes, there is a version 2 Ultra 6. The technology pocket is "re-configured" and has been introduced into all Ultra products that have technology pockets as V2 products. I am hoping to audition U6V2 in my system soon.

I have heard very good things about it, and understand there is now an Ultra 7 originally designed for big Rockport, Wilsons but also being used for Avalons as well.

 

[scot]

Hi LL21

I wonder if anyone has compared the Stillpoints speaker footers to the Critical Mass Systems Center Stage LS (loudspeakers) footers? That would be interesting.

When I had my Stillpoints Ultra 5 footers under my electronics, I compared them to a set of the CMS Center Stage v2 footers under my preamp. I clearly preferred the CMS feet. The Stillpoints did some things well. They did “clean things up” a bit, and they did tighten up the bass, but, unfortunately, the gorgeous tonal color and accurate timbre which is very important to me and an attribute I am not willing to give up on was MIA. I wanted to make sure so I switched back to the CMS feet, waited two weeks to make sure they had “settled” in completely. Sure enough, that beautiful tonal color and timber instantly returned. After a couple of weeks, I put the Stillpoints back in under the preamp again, and listened to the same 10 cd’s and again, the tonality and timbre just wasn’t there anymore. With the CMS v2’s back in the tonal beauty returned immediately. With the CMS feet in the system, I heard a very relaxed, unforced and very involving presentation that I didn’t hear with the Stillpoints. Now to be fair, mine were the Ultra 5’s. I’ve never heard the Ultra 6’s. With the CMS feet, it was all positive an no negative.

I can’t wait to try a set of his new CMS M2 feet that Joe L claims are a significant improvement over the V2’s. I also understand he’s working on a version designed specifically for turntables. Those should be interesting. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

 

[LL21]

Hi LL21

I wonder if anyone has compared the Stillpoints speaker footers to the Critical Mass Systems Center Stage LS (loudspeakers) footers? That would be interesting.

When I had my Stillpoints Ultra 5 footers under my electronics, I compared them to a set of the CMS Center Stage v2 footers under my preamp. I clearly preferred the CMS feet. The Stillpoints did some things well. They did “clean things up” a bit, and they did tighten up the bass, but, unfortunately, the gorgeous tonal color and accurate timbre which is very important to me and an attribute I am not willing to give up on was MIA. I wanted to make sure so I switched back to the CMS feet, waited two weeks to make sure they had “settled” in completely. Sure enough, that beautiful tonal color and timber instantly returned. After a couple of weeks, I put the Stillpoints back in under the preamp again, and listened to the same 10 cd’s and again, the tonality and timbre just wasn’t there anymore. With the CMS v2’s back in the tonal beauty returned immediately. With the CMS feet in the system, I heard a very relaxed, unforced and very involving presentation that I didn’t hear with the Stillpoints. Now to be fair, mine were the Ultra 5’s. I’ve never heard the Ultra 6’s. With the CMS feet, it was all positive an no negative.

I can’t wait to try a set of his new CMS M2 feet that Joe L claims are a significant improvement over the V2’s. I also understand he’s working on a version designed specifically for turntables. Those should be interesting. Take care.

Best regards
Scot

Hi Scot,

That is great feedback and exactly the kind of feedback audiophiles need because these direct comparisons are not always easy to do..and they also take time. Making the comparison on EVERYTHING that goes into a system (with all of the iterations between different components) means data points are sometimes all we end up going by.

In my case, I absolutely agree with you (and many others) who found the Stillpoints created great clarity but somehow lost tonal color. I remember the day a whole box of them was kindly dropped off...so began a mini-marathon of trials that lasted until 3:30am. And frustratingly, the whole time, I kept trying to compare vs HRS Nimbus, M3X, etc, etc.

However, at 3:30am I discovered something which I have now used consistently for nearly 7-10 years. I put an HRS Nimbus Coupler ON TOP of the Stillpoints to make direct contact with the underside of the component that I am isolating. You get all the clarity of the Stillpoints...PLUS a tonal color, depth that HRS are known for.

Interestingly, since then, I have seen HRS themselves now come out with later generation Nimbus pucks made of both aluminum blocks with their Nimbus elastomers on top.

At some point I may try Critical Mass, but they are about the same price here in the UK as the Stillpoints, and I am extremely happy with the HRS/Stillpoints combo. The importer here is great, and that really helps in terms of long-term relationships and loyalty.

Enjoy the CMS, and do update if you hear the v2 feet!

 

[Barry2013]

Hi Scot,

That is great feedback and exactly the kind of feedback audiophiles need because these direct comparisons are not always easy to do..and they also take time. Making the comparison on EVERYTHING that goes into a system (with all of the iterations between different components) means data points are sometimes all we end up going by.

In my case, I absolutely agree with you (and many others) who found the Stillpoints created great clarity but somehow lost tonal color. I remember the day a whole box of them was kindly dropped off...so began a mini-marathon of trials that lasted until 3:30am. And frustratingly, the whole time, I kept trying to compare vs HRS Nimbus, M3X, etc, etc.

However, at 3:30am I discovered something which I have now used consistently for nearly 7-10 years. I put an HRS Nimbus Coupler ON TOP of the Stillpoints to make direct contact with the underside of the component that I am isolating. You get all the clarity of the Stillpoints...PLUS a tonal color, depth that HRS are known for.

Interestingly, since then, I have seen HRS themselves now come out with later generation Nimbus pucks made of both aluminum blocks with their Nimbus elastomers on top.

At some point I may try Critical Mass, but they are about the same price here in the UK as the Stillpoints, and I am extremely happy with the HRS/Stillpoints combo. The importer here is great, and that really helps in terms of long-term relationships and loyalty.

Enjoy the CMS, and do update if you hear the v2 feet!

I was advised some months ago that the Ultra 6V2s were particularly synergistic with my Vitus Sia 030,
So I tried them in replacement of the Ultra Vs I was using. Sure enough they were right. More clarity, definition and very good tonal colour and timbre.

 

[LL21]

Great stuff Barry2013. I have spoken with Fraser...have you tried the new Ultra 7s by any chance? Or heard anything about them from others?

 

[Barry2013]

Thanks Lloyd.
Trust you are well.
No I haven't tried the Ultra 7s or heard anything of them other than in this thread. I did have the Ultra Vs under my YG speakers for quite a while but when I mentioned it to Dick Diamond at one of the Munich shows he advised me to go back to the supplied YG supports.
Duly followed his advice when I got back and concluded that he was right.
I appreciate your system is digital but after the success of the V2s I tried the new Ultra 6 turntable clamp in replacement of the stock SME clamp. It made an immediate and significant improvement to the sound.
As to the 7s I am guessing that they have further developed the successful improved technology in the 6V2s so it will be interesting to hear what people think.

 

[LL21]

Thanks Lloyd.
Trust you are well.
No I haven't tried the Ultra 7s or heard anything of them other than in this thread. I did have the Ultra Vs under my YG speakers for quite a while but when I mentioned it to Dick Diamond at one of the Munich shows he advised me to go back to the supplied YG supports.
Duly followed his advice when I got back and concluded that he was right.
I appreciate your system is digital but after the success of the V2s I tried the new Ultra 6 turntable clamp in replacement of the stock SME clamp. It made an immediate and significant improvement to the sound.
As to the 7s I am guessing that they have further developed the successful improved technology in the 6V2s so it will be interesting to hear what people think.

Good to know. On the Wilson XLFs, going back and forth between original spikes and Ultra 5s were clearly favoring the 5s again. I suspect that the kind of floor has something to do with it...concrete slab is probably very different than 19th century wooden floors over wooden beams.

As for the U6s...I recall they had a very different tonal quality than the U5s which I always found necessary to have with HRS Nimbus couplers. I still preferred the U6s with them but did not find them as 'absolutely necessary'.

I look forward to hearing the U6 v2 and the U7 at some point.

 

[Cellcbern]

Hi Scot,

That is great feedback and exactly the kind of feedback audiophiles need because these direct comparisons are not always easy to do..and they also take time. Making the comparison on EVERYTHING that goes into a system (with all of the iterations between different components) means data points are sometimes all we end up going by.

In my case, I absolutely agree with you (and many others) who found the Stillpoints created great clarity but somehow lost tonal color. I remember the day a whole box of them was kindly dropped off...so began a mini-marathon of trials that lasted until 3:30am. And frustratingly, the whole time, I kept trying to compare vs HRS Nimbus, M3X, etc, etc.

However, at 3:30am I discovered something which I have now used consistently for nearly 7-10 years. I put an HRS Nimbus Coupler ON TOP of the Stillpoints to make direct contact with the underside of the component that I am isolating. You get all the clarity of the Stillpoints...PLUS a tonal color, depth that HRS are known for.

Interestingly, since then, I have seen HRS themselves now come out with later generation Nimbus pucks made of both aluminum blocks with their Nimbus elastomers on top.

At some point I may try Critical Mass, but they are about the same price here in the UK as the Stillpoints, and I am extremely happy with the HRS/Stillpoints combo. The importer here is great, and that really helps in terms of long-term relationships and loyalty.

Enjoy the CMS, and do update if you hear the v2 feet!

Stillpoints sound like what they are made of. Steel is not the best material for tonal color. If you have to put Nimbus Couplers on top of Stillpoints in order for them not to rob music of its tonal color then Stillpoints are not the answer. If you are willing to spend the cost of the top model Stillpoints I recommend looking for a set of the Dalby feet:

Mono & Stereo © 2023: DOUBLE BESPOKE PRESTIGE FROM ENGLAND

Mono & Stereo © 2023: Dalby Audio Design Isolation feet

Mono & Stereo © 2023: DalbyAudioDesign Lignum Vitae D7-SE Isolation Feet in action

Dalby Audio Design Lignum Vitae D7-CBF Carbon Fibre Isolation Feet (1 set of 3) - Contrado Audio

One set of three Dalby Audio Design Lignum Vitae D7-CBF Carbon Fibre Isolation Feet, one of the best tuning feet in the world! They are in a fantastic condition. Retail price is 9.000 euro for the set of three, now for 2999 euro only. Check our other listings for more interesting items. Free...

www.contrado-audio.nl

Photo on the right is my sacd player which was transformed by the Dalby Lignum Vitae feet.

 

[LL21]

Stillpoints sound like what they are made of. Steel is not the best material for tonal color. If you have to put Nimbus Couplers on top of Stillpoints in order for them not to rob music of its tonal color them the Stillpoints are a poor design.

I am hardly the right person to discuss design, but if there is one thing I have observed: there is no perfect material, nor perfect design. Every well design piece of audio equipment has strengths and weaknesses. And it all becomes a trade off of how one prioritizes those.

Stillpoints by most accounts do clarity very very well. I have not heard anything so compact do so much for clarity on equipment and speakers yet. Being able to understand once un-understandable words in choral music, delicate deep house syncopated beats, trills on piano. Clarity was their focus, and they do it well...well enough that major London music colleges use their U5s under their pianos.

But no, it is not perfect either. Neither are pure elastomers, and I am sure ceramic, and all manner of other materials have their drawbacks as well. We use Auralex, HRS, SRA, Artesania as well as Stillpoints. And we use each one in combination with another. Rather than put the SRA on the main rack (solid and 3" thick birch ply shelves...but hardly super-audiophile inert) we put it on an HRS M3X base on top of the 3" thick shelve to give it greater rigidity and freedom from vibration. We also have over 150kg of mass damping on certain equipment (mainly the sub to be honest).

The only exception on mass damping is the SRA...shockingly they really do seem to be customized to the unit in terms of what goes on top of the SRA unit. For the first time ever, when we put the smallest damping plate on top of the Zanden on top of the SRA...it make the sound decidedly worse. However, SRA were clearly designed to be calibrated towards what goes ON TOP of the unit (ie, the specific piece of equipment) but not underneath where the addition of the HRS M3X shelf did help further. YMMV.

 

[Cellcbern]

I am hardly the right person to discuss design, but if there is one thing I have observed: there is no perfect material, nor perfect design. Every well design piece of audio equipment has strengths and weaknesses. And it all becomes a trade off of how one prioritizes those.

Stillpoints by most accounts do clarity very very well. I have not heard anything so compact do so much for clarity on equipment and speakers yet. Being able to understand once un-understandable words in choral music, delicate deep house syncopated beats, trills on piano. Clarity was their focus, and they do it well...well enough that major London music colleges use their U5s under their pianos.

But no, it is not perfect either. Neither are pure elastomers, and I am sure ceramic, and all manner of other materials have their drawbacks as well. We use Auralex, HRS, SRA, Artesania as well as Stillpoints. And we use each one in combination with another. Rather than put the SRA on the main rack (solid and 3" thick birch ply shelves...but hardly super-audiophile inert) we put it on an HRS M3X base on top of the 3" thick shelve to give it greater rigidity and freedom from vibration. We also have over 150kg of mass damping on certain equipment (mainly the sub to be honest).

The only exception on mass damping is the SRA...shockingly they really do seem to be customized to the unit in terms of what goes on top of the SRA unit. For the first time ever, when we put the smallest damping plate on top of the Zanden on top of the SRA...it make the sound decidedly worse. However, SRA were clearly designed to be calibrated towards what goes ON TOP of the unit (ie, the specific piece of equipment) but not underneath where the addition of the HRS M3X shelf did help further. YMMV.

No - I'm sure there are no perfect materials. But the Dalby feet sound both clearer and more musical than every other footer I've heard. I do think the wood has something to do with the musical part. Have you listened to a component resting on any of the Dalby footers?

 

[LL21]

No - I'm sure there are no perfect materials. But the Dalby feet sound both clearer and more musical than every other footer I've heard. I do think the wood has something to do with the musical part. Have you listened to a component resting on any of the Dalby footers?

Ahaaaa...now you speak of the legendary Dalby feet. I have NEVER had the opportunity to hear them, and would really love to do so some day. I have indeed heard tremendous things about them! Lignum Vitae and all that stuff!

I have spoken with Miguel the founder of Tripoint who is incredibly meticulous about his work and his listening. When Stillpoints came out, we shared our listening notes...much of which we covered here already. And he waxed absolutely lyrical about Dalby and lignum vitae.

 

[LL21]

I believe Dalby are based in the UK...but are they still actively marketing/selling?

 

[Cellcbern]

I believe Dalby are based in the UK...but are they still actively marketing/selling?

Audio Exotics lists them as one of the brands they carry - see:
-https://www.audioexotics.com/brands/dalby-audio-design/
-https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12008/dalby-audio-design-corner/p13