Subwoofer help needed asap..!

[b345t]

Hey everyone, I am looking at upgrading my pair of subwoofers. A dealer gave me a great price of a pair of Velodyne dd12+ . I need to answer him by tomorrow latest though as he genuinely has someone else interested too. My question is, are these subs still rocking given their age? Does the competition by the likes of REL, JL audio, SVS smoke them out of the water in 2020? I'm running a pair of Sopra 2 and a little worried about the synergy. I'm able to get them at about 1/2 retail price so yea, I would like some help because I can't travel to hear them in person and need to decide really soon..! Thanks

 

[Al M.]

Hey everyone, I am looking at upgrading my pair of subwoofers. A dealer gave me a great price of a pair of Velodyne dd12+ . I need to answer him by tomorrow latest though as he genuinely has someone else interested too. My question is, are these subs still rocking given their age? Does the competition by the likes of REL, JL audio, SVS smoke them out of the water in 2020? I'm running a pair of Sopra 2 and a little worried about the synergy. I'm able to get them at about 1/2 retail price so yea, I would like some help because I can't travel to hear them in person and need to decide really soon..! Thanks

I have not heard the Velodyne, so I cannot comment on its sound. I do love my JL Audio F112v2 subs. Incredibly fast, but in a natural way. Fast and tight when required, but bass that should sound round and voluptuous still does so. Highly efficient start and stop behavior, but no overdamping. Just like the Velodyne, it has microphone guided equilibration by DSP. And it adjusts to the room: my medium sized room gets slightly overloaded by very low bass, so I use the option for attenuation at the 24 Hz point. Has saved the quality of my bass, which still sounds deep when required, but without any 'boomy' overhang.

One comment on that deal though: 1/2 retail price for a 15 year old model sounds like a pretty bad deal to me. Half the price for a 5 year old model, well that would be good, but for a 15 year old model? I would run away from that "deal".

 

[Kingrex]

I had an older DD12. I got rid of it in a few days.

 

[Al M.]

I had an older DD12. I got rid of it in a few days.

Could you explain why?

 

[Kingrex]

No, not really. I did not spend time trying to blend it into my system. It became apparent real fast integrating a sub was going to be work. I did not want to go down the road.

 

[Al M.]

No, not really. I did not spend time trying to blend it into my system. It became apparent real fast integrating a sub was going to be work. I did not want to go down the road.

I see, thanks. It will depend on room and speaker/sub combination how much work it is. For me the baseline of integration was mostly fine right away, even though optimizing for perfection can take more time.

 

[jeff1225]

Something this old tends to sell for 1/3 of the original retail cost. There's a Vel DD12 for $900 on USAudio Mart right now.

 

[LL21]

Hey everyone, I am looking at upgrading my pair of subwoofers. A dealer gave me a great price of a pair of Velodyne dd12+ . I need to answer him by tomorrow latest though as he genuinely has someone else interested too. My question is, are these subs still rocking given their age? Does the competition by the likes of REL, JL audio, SVS smoke them out of the water in 2020? I'm running a pair of Sopra 2 and a little worried about the synergy. I'm able to get them at about 1/2 retail price so yea, I would like some help because I can't travel to hear them in person and need to decide really soon..! Thanks

I am a big fan of the DD+ series as an owner of the DD18+. I have asked numerous people about their thoughts on the Paradigm Sub 2, JL Gothams. In my mind, I do think that pushing those subs and the big Velodyne to their limits could well result in superior measurements by these other two. However:

1. I use my DD18+ at volume 10 and is cut off above 40hz. And my overall volume level in the room is not great unless we are watching action movies.

2. I would suggest that at the level of performance you are talking about...all of which are great subs...then it is setup that will matter far more. And there, the Velodyne system is extremely good. Both the microphone, measurements, laptop software for adjustment. There is both automatic and manual adjustments...i would say try auto, and expect to adjust manually from there

As for price, half off is 'ok' if it is new in box and comes with warranty. Velodyne was nearly shut but was recently acquired by a major German Audio distributor...read the website. If they will honor the warranty, you should be in good shape.

Hope that helps.

 

[b345t]

Thank you for the replies. My room is 5m x 5m. I'm asking because I was wondering if getting the 15 or 18 model would be more beneficial or would they overpower with bass? Thanks again

 

[Al M.]

Thank you for the replies. My room is 5m x 5m. I'm asking because I was wondering if getting the 15 or 18 model would be more beneficial or would they overpower with bass? Thanks again

You're welcome. I would most emphatically err on the smaller side. Wherever the musical program requires it, I get plenty of brutally punchy bass that goes deep with my 12 inch driver subs. My room is 3.6 x 7.2 meter which, if height were the same, would amount to approximately the same internal volume as yours (my height is 8.5 feet which I think is 2.6 meter). Even then, as I said, I use the extreme low frequency attenuation on the JL Audio subs for avoiding the slight room overload with very low bass. I don't know if the Velodyne offer that option, which I consider vital.

Better having a sin of omission of the lowest impact which you can more easily forget that it's lacking, than a sin of commission in the form of some nasty 'boom' coloration that you hear all the time.

JL Audio recommends the 12 inch woofer sub for medium sized rooms like ours, and the 13.5 inch model for large rooms.

 

[LL21]

You're welcome. I would most emphatically err on the smaller side. Wherever the musical program requires it, I get plenty of brutally punchy bass that goes deep with my 12 inch driver subs. My room is 3.6 x 7.2 meter which, if height were the same, would amount to approximately the same internal volume as yours (my height is 8.5 feet which I think is 2.6 meter). Even then, as I said, I use the extreme low frequency attenuation on the JL Audio subs for avoiding the slight room overload with very low bass. I don't know if the Velodyne offer that option, which I consider vital.

Better having a sin of omission of the lowest impact which you can more easily forget that it's lacking, than a sin of commission in the form of some nasty 'boom' coloration that you hear all the time.

JL Audio recommends the 12 inch woofer sub for medium sized rooms like ours, and the 13.5 inch model for large rooms.

The Velodyne allows you to cut off anywhere from 40hz to 200hz at the top end and anywhere below 20hz with an extreme rolloff switch below 15hz or so to protect from extreme low bass. You also have the ability to depress or boost up to 8 frequencies of your choice based on a graph where you can select anything from 15hz up to 200hz or so.

 

[kach22i]

Maybe a photo of the front of your room as starters will help explain how your are using your current subwoofer pair.

I would not rush into anything.

 

[LenWhite]

Installed a JL Audio F212v2 and CR-1 last year. JL Audio T/S helped me dial in the phase alignment. The bass has never sounded like this in any of the audio systems I've owned other than IRA Beta's. The sub blends completely into the soundstage.

 

[rgmd11]

I too have the JL Audio CR1 crossover with my pair of F112v2 and they seamlessly integrate with my speakers, the proverbial you just don’t know they are there

 

[thedudeabides]

In general and regardless of the sub, it's all about the room and main speaker integration. Any high quality sub(s) can sound like crap if not adjusted properly. I have a single REL T7i in a much larger room and it provides sufficient volume and well integrated bass.

 

[Al M.]

In general and regardless of the sub, it's all about the room and main speaker integration. Any high quality sub(s) can sound like crap if not adjusted properly. I have a single REL T7i in a much larger room and it provides sufficient volume and well integrated bass.

Indeed. And it's often not even the adjustment of the subs. My bass is excellent and has been lauded by audiophile friends who visited. Yet this week I moved my main speakers 2 inches further back and 2 inches from the sidewalls, in order to (successfully) remove some slight distortions in mids and highs, due to speaker/room interaction, which had been starting to bother me. Turns out, bass, including low bass, also becomes even better. Before the move of the main speakers I had been admiring the sound of the stand up bass solo in a track with the Benny Green trio. Yet a few of the low notes were just slightly fat. Turning down the sub from its relatively high setting on that track by a little solved the issue. To my astonishment, after the speaker move, and with the old higher sub volume setting, the bass on that solo is now completely even throughout the range, and tight also in the low notes (yet still with the roundness of plucked stand up bass).

Here's the kicker: I have two-way monitors and they do not reproduce low bass at all on this solo. Yet the leading edge of their bass before the speaker move still made the low bass contribution of the subs sound just ever so slightly bloated. Needless to say, it is now absolutely impossible to tell that a monitor/sub combo is reproducing that bass solo, rather than a single speaker (on most other material it was impossible to tell even before the speaker move).

So when you think it's the subs or their adjustment that are the problem when you hear an anomaly, think again. It may be a problem with the setup of your main speakers instead, and one that you might not hear without the subs playing.

 

[thedudeabides]

Agreed. REL recommends maximizing speaker performance before installing the sub.

 

[kach22i]

Indeed. And it's often not even the adjustment of the subs. My bass is excellent and has been lauded by audiophile friends who visited. Yet this week I moved my main speakers 2 inches further back and 2 inches from the sidewalls, in order to (successfully) remove some slight distortions in mids and highs, due to speaker/room interaction, which had been starting to bother me. Turns out, bass, including low bass, also becomes even better. Before the move of the main speakers I had been admiring the sound of the stand up bass solo in a track with the Benny Green trio. Yet a few of the low notes were just slightly fat. Turning down the sub from its relatively high setting on that track by a little solved the issue. To my astonishment, after the speaker move, and with the old higher sub volume setting, the bass on that solo is now completely even throughout the range, and tight also in the low notes (yet still with the roundness of plucked stand up bass).

Here's the kicker: I have two-way monitors and they do not reproduce low bass at all on this solo. Yet the leading edge of their bass before the speaker move still made the low bass contribution of the subs sound just ever so slightly bloated. Needless to say, it is now absolutely impossible to tell that a monitor/sub combo is reproducing that bass solo, rather than a single speaker (on most other material it was impossible to tell even before the speaker move).

So when you think it's the subs or their adjustment that are the problem when you hear an anomaly, think again. It may be a problem with the setup of your main speakers instead, and one that you might not hear without the subs playing.

This is funny, I made similar adjustments a couple of days ago with similar results.