Super3 - a supercapacitor LPS, by Farad Power Supplies

[jasond]

Yes very satisfied with them
The Sonore OM is a fibre media converter - isolating noise between the ISP router and the EtherRegen. Improvements to ER are in every aspect - more transparency, focus, more defined bass, overall more silent and just sounds more natural.

 

[Geir]

Yes very satisfied with them
The Sonore OM is a fibre media converter - isolating noise between the ISP router and the EtherRegen. Improvements to ER are in every aspect - more transparency, focus, more defined bass, overall more silent and just sounds more natural.

Have you experimented with different ac power cords on the Farad? Makes a difference?

 

[jasond]

Have you experimented with different ac power cords on the Farad? Makes a difference?

Yes the AC cord used definitely has an impact and is an area to further tweak things. I have done extensive testing in the whole power related elements. Just have a look at my recent setup.

 

[Geir]

Yes the AC cord used definitely has an impact and is an area to further tweak things. I have done extensive testing in the whole power related elements. Just have a look at my recent setup.

Oh, nice system. Can I ask you what difference it makes to use the Audio Quest Dragon to power the Farad before the source againts another lesser cables? I have seen people use expensive power cords also to power the Farad before a switch and router. I guess it has to make sense from a financial point of view as well. I watched a video on Jay's Audio Lab, and he was floored by the improvement caused by the quality of the power cord going into the power supply powering the ethernet switch. Really surprised that there is so much gain in this area.

 

[jasond]

Yes if you got a transparent and solid overall setup you will easily hear the improvements of different types of power cords. The AQ Dragon well is just for those who would love to see what’s possible/ extend the limits. The AQ NRG-Z3 for example is absolutely great price/performance wise. For more the Monsoon is a real upgrade. So it’s really exciting to try out different power cords and what impact they have.

 

[Geir]

Yes if you got a transparent and solid overall setup you will easily hear the improvements of different types of power cords. The AQ Dragon well is just for those who would love to see what’s possible/ extend the limits. The AQ NRG-Z3 for example is absolutely great price/performance wise. For more the Monsoon is a real upgrade. So it’s really exciting to try out different power cords and what impact they have.

It is so fascinating. Sometimes even dramatic changes happen. It is not about what some components costs. It some cases in terms og synergy, the most expensive part could be a cable.

 

[kennyb123]

Improvements to ER are in every aspect - more transparency, focus, more defined bass, overall more silent and just sounds more natural.

My experience too.

Yes the AC cord used definitely has an impact and is an area to further tweak things.

I agree on this. I ended up favoring the Shunyata Venom V14 NR on my digital-only gear (in other words, no analog stage). When using the Super3 to power gear that has an analog stage, the Super3 scales very well to better power cords. It’s capable of meeting instantaneous current demands so the power cord shouldn’t hinder this ability.

 

[7ryder]

In the meantime I have 3 Farads
One for EtherRegen, one for Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe and one for LUMIN U2 Mini.

beat ya' - I have currently have 5 ;-) I'm a big fan of these
One for my modded Mutec MC3 USB+, 2 for my modded Melco S100, one for Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe and one Orbi satellite

 

[Geir]

beat ya' - I have currently have 5 ;-) I'm a big fan of these
One for my modded Mutec MC3 USB+, 2 for my modded Melco S100, one for Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe and one Orbi satellite

What is your experience with upgrading ac power cord for Farad power supply?

 

[7ryder]

What is your experience with upgrading ac power cord for Farad power supply?

I haven't upgraded them, I went with the stock Farad power cords. That said, like Ken, I have upgraded the stock power cords for my digital devices with Shunyata Venom V14 NR. I can't say that I have heard any difference.

 

[Geir]

I haven't upgraded them, I went with the stock Farad power cords. That said, like Ken, I have upgraded the stock power cords for my digital devices with Shunyata Venom V14 NR. I can't say that I have heard any difference.

Thanks, just thinking about this since I will receive one next week and have no experience with Farad before.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...wow! I have Farad3 envy @7ryder

I have two F3s: one on the 5v OCXO in a modded Buffalo, and a 12v on my router. HiFi Tuning fuses. I had a third F3 on an MScaler a while back.

I like them and they perform very well. I also have the custom Sonore ps and an LPS2 from Uptone, both of which are also excellent. I would recommend any of them.

What I would not recommend is the sBooster. IMO that is a clear level down from the above items.

I have tried a few power cable options, but settled on those Shunyata V14 digital-only cables developed for their medical products group. IIRC @kennyb123 tipped that scale for me a couple of years back. Good Luck. I think you will enjoy the F3s. They take a little bit to settle in, but not too long as I recall.

 

[Geir]

...wow! I have Farad3 envy @7ryder

I have two F3s: one on the 5v OCXO in a modded Buffalo, and a 12v on my router. HiFi Tuning fuses. I had a third F3 on an MScaler a while back.

I like them and they perform very well. I also have the custom Sonore ps and an LPS2 from Uptone, both of which are also excellent. I would recommend any of them.

What I would not recommend is the sBooster. IMO that is a clear level down from the above items.

I have tried a few power cable options, but settled on those Shunyata V14 digital-only cables developed for their medical products group. IIRC @kennyb123 tipped that scale for me a couple of years back. Good Luck. I think you will enjoy the F3s. They take a little bit to settle in, but not too long as I recall.

I had the Sbooster, but decided to return it, came across this site where they tested a lot of ethernet switch's and power supply, and was told Farad was the go to psu for this job. I just bought a new Lessloss power cord, so I will switch around the power cords to try to find the best solution, all mix and match this system. Use cables from, Ansuz, Furutech, Shunyata, Lessloss, Tubulus, Black Magic, In-Akustic, Organic. Think I have a cable fetish lol

 

[Holmz]

Have you experimented with different ac power cords on the Farad? Makes a difference?

I would find that very difficult to fathom.
However @QuadDiffusor did such at good job back on the first page with measurements that he would be able to convince me with graphs that the cord and/or a fuse does something real.

Otherwise it comes across like the Farad device doesn’t really account for the incoming power, and we get some improvement - which I am a bit skeptical to believe.

 

[kennyb123]

Otherwise it comes across like the Farad device doesn’t really account for the incoming power, and we get some improvement - which I am a bit skeptical to believe.

A power supply exists to meet demands the electronics places on it. It can only meet those demands if it is able to draw current from the AC circuit instantaneously to meet those demands. The less the power cord resists the flow of current, the better the power supply is able to perform.

 

[Holmz]

A power supply exists to meet demands the electronics places on it. It can only meet those demands if it is able to draw current from the AC circuit instantaneously to meet those demands. The less the power cord resists the flow of current, the better the power supply is able to perform.

I read that all the time, but I know when I have gear that demands a super high current, the breaker trips instantaneously.
And if the cord is not getting hot then I doubt that the current is getting out of hand for he cord... Plus it is already pulsing in at 100-120 Hz… it is not like the 120v is a constant number.

The power supply exists to supply DC power from AC, and then to store the DC power do it can bursted out as needed.
half the time the AC not able to shove any current into the system.

Furthermore “this power supply” is supplying power to something with its own internal storage most of the time.
Whatever is taking in 12V and 3-5A is not going to be pulling a greatly demand on the electrical grid. It is going to be a DAC or preamp, or some similar thing that does not need the stiffness of all the Hoover dam power.

Like I said earlier, without some graph, like these:

<phots and text removed>.



MEASUREMENTS
Farad Super3
View attachment 61097View attachment 61098
View attachment 61099
View attachment 61100

Voltage loaded: 11.8
Voltage unloaded: 12.14
Noise max: -122 (55 KHz)
Noise min: -145

Sjonge… (WOW!) how good the Farad Super3 measures! There is actually no noise at all. So this is going to be a very boring story. We see nothing at all on the AudioPrecision: a stable noise level of around -140 dBV to around 1 kHz. From 1 kHz we see that it rises slightly towards the 50 kHz. But yes: around -130 to -125 dBV, so what are we talking about?

The square wave also comes through nicely, although it seems to be slightly muted. Perhaps the result of a coil or the supercaps ...

LISTENING
Rest, rest, rest ... The Farad is a special product. It lifts the Mytek one level above that of the Sbooster. We hear more black, more music. Purely because of the silence it can bring. The voice of Beth Gibbons is completely loose (intended positively) and has received a beautiful natural timbre. No hardness. The edges around the high hats are also completely gone. The dac is also no longer close to busier, more complex work. Very special to hear this. If you think it can't be better ... It can be done. Absolutely a top product.

… Then I am pretty skeptical.
I suppose I used one of those conditioners that did not work as well, then maybe busting power cords and fuses makes sense.
But if the device works as it was shown, then what is a power cord going to do?
(It is already operating scary-perfect)

I also took a couple of physics courses, so I am familiar with what is happening.
I did less well in the creative writing courses, so the reviews of power cords don’t resonance with me as well.

On one of my amps I can turn the thing off and it plays for ~10 seconds.
But I do not think that these Farad devices are being used for large loads, just the 12V, and similar, stuff.
However when an amp runs with switched off power, it sort of indicates a lot of energy storage.

 

[kennyb123]

]

I suppose I used one of those conditioners that did not work as well, then maybe busting power cords and fuses makes sense.
But if the device works as it was shown, then what is a power cord going to do?
(It is already operating scary-perfect)

I also took a couple of physics courses, so I am familiar with what is happening.

Sorry but you aren't demonstrating even a basic understanding of this stuff.

Shunyata did a nice job explaining concepts in this document. A couple paragraphs from it follow. Your physics courses wouldn't have covered exactly how power supplies pull current. But they should have taught you the impact impedance has on the flow of current.

Electronic power supplies don’t pull current in a linear fashion like a light bulb, fan or simple motor would. The full-wave bridge rectifiers and digital switching supplies in electronics draw hard on the AC line, pulling instantaneous bursts of current off the highest and lowest peaks of the sine-wave. This happens within milliseconds in order to fill power supplies storage capacitors. Both full wave bridge rectifiers and digital switching supplies create a significant amount of noise during this process that extends in frequency to the 50th harmonic of the line frequency. What this means, is that from the perspective of power-supply, AC transmission is a near-field, high-frequency occurrence not a low frequency 50-60Hz event.

If we accept that electronic power supply’s interface with current is a high-frequency, dynamic (short-term) event then it becomes clear that the ideal signal path for current should be direct, with minimum added complexity. Providing simple, unobstructed, low-impedance pathways for current using solid connections and high quality materials will yield by far the most consistent and desirable results. The closer the signal navigates toward electronics the more critical these elements become. Conversely the more complex, obstructed the path, or the more reactive elements that are used between the panel and a system of electronics, the more compromised and unpredictable the results will be.

 

[Holmz]

]


Sorry but you aren't demonstrating even a basic understanding of this stuff.

Shunyata did a nice job explaining concepts in this document. A couple paragraphs from it follow. Your physics courses wouldn't have covered exactly how power supplies pull current. But they should have taught you the impact impedance has on the flow of current.

Electronic power supplies don’t pull current in a linear fashion like a light bulb, fan or simple motor would. The full-wave bridge rectifiers and digital switching supplies in electronics draw hard on the AC line, pulling instantaneous bursts of current off the highest and lowest peaks of the sine-wave. This happens within milliseconds in order to fill power supplies storage capacitors. Both full wave bridge rectifiers and digital switching supplies create a significant amount of noise during this process that extends in frequency to the 50th harmonic of the line frequency. What this means, is that from the perspective of power-supply, AC transmission is a near-field, high-frequency occurrence not a low frequency 50-60Hz event.

If we accept that electronic power supply’s interface with current is a high-frequency, dynamic (short-term) event then it becomes clear that the ideal signal path for current should be direct, with minimum added complexity. Providing simple, unobstructed, low-impedance pathways for current using solid connections and high quality materials will yield by far the most consistent and desirable results. The closer the signal navigates toward electronics the more critical these elements become. Conversely the more complex, obstructed the path, or the more reactive elements that are used between the panel and a system of electronics, the more compromised and unpredictable the results will be.

We agree that the incoming current is pulsing in something less that 8-10msec. And likely more like over a few milliseconds at the top of each cycle.

So all I am saying is that the output voltage from the supply looks perfect in the graphs from earlier.
- If those graphs get better or worse with a power cord change, then that would be good to know.
- If those graphs are unchanged, then that would also be good to know.

A 12V supply kicking out 5A means that on a 10:1 transformer it is going to be 0.5A, and half that on Eu voltage assuming a 20:1 transformer..
We can likely double, triple or quadruple the current as it is pulsing in over some smaller phase angle… But unless the cord is severely undersized, or has stacks of inductors and chokes on it, it it would be hard for that low output (60W) supply to see any pulsing of the resulting DC.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. We can theorise all we want, but a graph makes for a more convincing analysis and story.

Why does this usually devolve into a review of the marketing materials, when we have the previous graphs showing absolutely stunning regulation happening?
It has been objectively shown that the unit itself is doing what it claims, and stunningly so… but the speculation that it gets better with a cord is still subjective.

It is possible I missed where they show the measurements and specs for the complex impedance of power cords.

 

[Geir]

I would find that very difficult to fathom.
However @QuadDiffusor did such at good job back on the first page with measurements that he would be able to convince me with graphs that the cord and/or a fuse does something real.

Otherwise it comes across like the Farad device doesn’t really account for the incoming power, and we get some improvement - which I am a bit skeptical to believe.

The question was ment for people with first hand experience using Farad power supplies, and testing it with different power cords.

 

[kennyb123]

So all I am saying is that the output voltage from the supply looks perfect in the graphs from earlier.
- If those graphs get better or worse with a power cord change, then that would be good to know.
- If those graphs are unchanged, then that would also be good to know.

Better or worse is determined by whether the music sounds more like the real thing. No one has yet to come up with a set of measurements that tell us this.

I'm going to stop responding as my interest is only in the reproduction of music. Those pursing graphs aren't after the same thing I am after so there's nothing more I can add.