I don’t understand what the impact to the sound is by utilizing a cartridge with a 10 ohm impedance. What am I not “fully benefiting”?
Sutherland Phono Stages
- Thread starter Arcus7
- Start date
SUTZ is a transimpedance step up. To replace any step up transformer application, internal or external, using the moving magnet phono input. I find this to be absolutely wonderful in my system. People that like to use step up transformers in their systems may have a good understanding of this. This is in my experience, a much better solution for step up than any transformer I have tried, so long as your cartridge is one of very low internal impedance. Say below 20 ohm.
Why do people like step up transformers into moving magnet phono stages to use low output MC cartridges? Eliminating gain stages is the game here, and MM phono pres are much simpler typically, electrically, than MC phono stages. So SUTZ is a more transparent way to increase gain. Most MC preamps use some form of step up, via circuitry or a transformer internally. If you have the ability to use a SUTZ, I highly recommend giving it a listen. There is not a product page up yet, but it is coming. Feel free to ask me anything regarding, and I will try my best to help understand just what this special piece is and offers.
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The lower the impedance the cartridge is, the safer you are to getting great sound out of a current input phono pre. In practice here though, I have gotten great results even up to 16 ohm cartridges. Currently using the Koetsu Jade Platinum and Dynavector XV1S. 6-7 ohms for these great cartridges and they sound wonderful going into my SUTZ (step up transimpedance) in front of an all tube MM phono preamp. Also even heard the Hana SL work well with the TZ Vibe phono preamp. So it is very possible to get great sound from many cartridge options with current input phono preamps. My advice though, I would limit myself to cartridges below 20 ohm for this technology to work best.
BTW, your TZ Direct phono preamp is a wonderful piece! Congratulations for owning that. I personally, had one for evaluation during the build process, and loved the sound very much. I typically get an ear on most of what Ron produces in my system. His Transimpedance offerings are really a treat to experience.
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I’m happy with my 20/20 with LPS though I don’t see it as an endgame piece. I don’t know why I think that and I’ve not heard any high(er) end phonostages. Right now I dont believe the Sutherland is the weak point in my system.
I believe it is an endgame piece in that it really delivers the goods. I think in the world of voltage gain phono preamps, this one is legendary. You can do better, sure, but I would not be surprised if you find yourself going back to the 20/20 depending on cartridge and budget, comparing to other voltage gain preamps. If you go with low impedance MC carts, that opens up your world to the transimpedance offerings, and yes, this way is surely a better result. This technology offers a more transcending experience in that more of your records will sound amazing, even ones that you thought were not so well recorded. Rather special direction to go.
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My current cart is 10 ohms and I’ve heard people are having great results so I’m definitely interested in the TI style preamps.
Yes, my TZ Direct works well with the Aphelion 2 (10ohms), but I did demo the Little Loco first just to make sure. Even though there is a rule of thumb for which cartridges work the best ohm-wise, (I understand a low voltage cartridge is also needed—no high output MC or MM), a demo is probably warranted.
I’ve used a couple of the Sutherland Phono Stages with much success. The most current is the Little Loco Mk2 version. I love it !! My arsenal of LoMc cartridges include The Hana M ML, Mutech Hayabusa, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Miyajima Spirit Mono.
Paul79, sorry for the question, but it's unclear to me if you use the SUTZ with a voltage input phono amp or a current input phono amp. If used with a typical voltage input phono amp, it seems one would then have the best of both worlds, just by adding the SUTZ.
Yes, I am using it into a voltage gain tube phono. That is how it is supposed to be used, into a standard 47K moving magnet phono stage or input on even very high end preamps that have MM capability. Yes, you have the right idea in that you get the best of both worlds. It introduces transimpedance technology as well as a more transparent way to step up vs. even the best step up transformers. If my results are anything to go by, it may be a product that revolutionizes the industry, with one limitation. Very low impedance MC cartridges only. However, there are allot to choose from nowadays!
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Assisting a friend with his vintage system, the replacement of his Sutherland PH3D into a CJ PV5 (line input) with a SUTz (MM input) was a revelation to say the least - “You wouldn’t understand” being the best descriptor by the owner!
Cartridge is a Dynavector XX2 MKII on an SME Series 309 (aluminum early production).
Cartridge is a Dynavector XX2 MKII on an SME Series 309 (aluminum early production).
This is perhaps, the SUTZ most interesting attribute! Its ability to really bring to life even vintage simple MM phono stages is quite something, and the area I truly love the most about it.
Thought I would update this thread to share, the SUTZ has been successfully used in 2 more very high end systems, one consisting of the Allnic H 8000 DHT and all the other top end Allnic wares. Another in a system with the Audio Research Reference 10 phono. Both users reported big gains in using the SUTZ! Very excited about these data points. The Allnic owner reported that instead of his alignment compensating the system, he was able to easily "hear" what needed to be done to optimize cartridge setup, due to much improved focus from the SUTZ. Having heard the H5000 DHT myself, this was very reassuring. The Audio Research owner has a big system, with the Magico Ultimate horn speakers. Still waiting on his overall experience, but has sent the payment and initial reports are "WOW". So awesome to see the SUTZ experience translate to even very high end systems!
Simple, it doesn’t.
For a current gain device, the most telling specification of a cartridge is its coil impedance/resistance. While there are always exceptions, it is generally suggested that 10 ohms or less is optimal with s/n improving as resistance decreases.
In your case of 400 ohms being recommended loading for a typical voltage gain scenario, I would guess your cartridge exhibits ~ a 40 ohm internal coil impedance/resistance.
I hope to shed a little light as I’m not technically qualified.
Curious if anyone has experience or advice using chassis grounding products on the Sutherland phono stages. I have a Little Loco 2 and the grounding nut on the back (I'm assuming) is to 'ground' a table, but I guess it can also be used to be attached to say a Shunyata / Entreq / Puritan grounding system?
TIA!
TIA!
New dual mono transimpedance stages: Dos Locos!
Interesting that it seems like the minimum impedance has increased compared to the prior TZ units...
Interesting that it seems like the minimum impedance has increased compared to the prior TZ units...
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