My room measures 5.6 m X 6.5 m and I use TAD CR-1's which fill the room with music!
The CR-1's are 8' out from the back wall and 5' from each side wall (measured from the front driver centres). I sit 12' from the speakers, forming an Isosceles triangle. Bass response is smooth, even and well-extended.
I think that the dimensions of your room (a long, thin rectangle) will throw up some problematic nulls and peaks and will require careful positioning of speakers and listening position to achieve a satisfactory bass response.
Apologies for the delay in replying,...have been off the forums for a few days. My room measures 16' x 24' (4.877m x 7.32m, approx. 35.7 square meters) with a long hallway and staircase down to the 1st floor that allows for some breathing room for bass expansion, etc...Not an ideal shape (open on both sides would be better) however the R1s sound open, spacious and not too big for the room. They are extremely efficient so it does not take much to fill the room and the rest of the house downstairs and up with music. I have my speakers along the long wall as opposed to firing down the room the long way due to an architectural alcove on the left side of the room with a double-slope roof cut-out (or whatever you would call), they are positioned 3 feet out from the long wall (measured from back of speaker so front baffle of speaker is five feet out from back wall...). The benefit I have placing them on the long wall is they have a lot of spacing from any side walls and as I mentioned, ample space from the back walls so the image is huge in all 3 dimensions, very spacious in sound, depth, etc... Out of necessity (WAF), my room is untreated so the only side-effect of my room is an issue with some bass pile-up (1 very narrow 'Q' centered on a specific frequency ) in that that irregular alcove on the left side which I've mitigated best I can under the (WAF) circumstances I must live with.
Your room is a bit smaller in squared meter area, but I think that if you are sure to place them out from back walls and side walls (and possibly treat the room if you are able minimally), you can fit them into the room and be extremely happy. The CR1s are also clearly an option but you'll need 1 sub and possibly 2 for best results (I like RELs due to the way they integrate into the high-pass directly off the amp's binding posts. I don't need subs with the R1s as they are flat in my room down to 21-22 Hz but if I went back to subs (or had the CR1s), I pick up a big REL, or 2, very quickly. I have several people I know from the forums who have the CR1s and are very happy with them. Most have also heard the R1s and had to choose the CR1s for one reason or another; all have told me and/or posted that they'd have the R1s any day if their situations could provide for them (money, room, etc....).
Here is my system with some pictures further down the thread;
Thank you for your message! First, i see that you use a REL sub: does it mean that without the sub, bass extension is not good enough? Second, your amp deliver 350W. I was told that the CR1 need a powerful amp to work well. Was it your feeling? Did you consider other options? Best regards
Thank you for your message! First, i see that you use a REL sub: does it mean that without the sub, bass extension is not good enough? Second, your amp deliver 350W. I was told that the CR1 need a powerful amp to work well. Was it your feeling? Did you consider other options? Best regards
You are welcome! I have not had a subwoofer since about 2011 though I have owned multiple subwoofers in the past (Mirage OM-200s then several RELs including the B1 Britannica). I don't need a sub with my prior speakers (Legacy AERIS and before them Focus SE) nor do I need one with the R1s in my room and as I have the system cabled up.
My Esoteric A02 amp puts out 200W into an 8-ohm load, 250W at peak, 400W into a 4-ohm load, 500W at peak (the TAD R1s are a nominal 4-ohm load) and 800W bridged and a 1000W at peak bridged.
The damping factor is > 1,000; this amp is one hell of a performer and I've never found its limit even with the most dynamic material and SPLs in the room. It EASILY drives the R1s from the most
delicate passages to the biggest and most expansive passages you can imagine...
It's 2 gain stage approach and all that it is composed of make it the best sounding amp to me that I've ever owned...
Rated output power
STEREO
200 W + 200 W (8 ?)
400 W + 400 W (4 ?)
BTL
BTL 800 W (8 ?)
Maximum output power
STEREO
250 W + 250 W (8 ?) (JEITA)
500 W + 500 W (4 ?) (JEITA)
Thank you for your message! First, i see that you use a REL sub: does it mean that without the sub, bass extension is not good enough? Second, your amp deliver 350W. I was told that the CR1 need a powerful amp to work well. Was it your feeling? Did you consider other options? Best regards
The REL Gibraltar sub in my system is not only about bass extension. It also contributes to the palpability of the soundstage and imaging qualities of the TAD CR-1 speaker. Dialled in correctly, the sub also assists with the control of room nodes and the evenness of bass response.
I cross over at 38Hz and only apply subtle volume (10) to underpin the response of the main speakers. The REL sub is connected to the high level input and run from the speaker output terminals of the power amp to mirror the bass signature of the main system.
The TAD CR-1 is certainly not bass-shy and on some material, the addition of a sub is unnecessary. It does give me the flexibility to increase bass volume and extension to suit my taste. Because the REL Gibraltar has a remote control, this can easily be done from the listening position on a disc by disc basis.
I have owned my Conrad Johnson Premier 350SA from new, since 2004. It is my oldest system component and I am completely happy with it's performance, to the extent that I have not felt the need to seek an alternative. It delivers over 600 watts into a 4ohm load (TAD CR-1) and together with 66 amp current delivery, is powerful enough to drive almost any speaker system.
The REL Gibraltar sub in my system is not only about bass extension. It also contributes to the palpability of the soundstage and imaging qualities of the TAD CR-1 speaker. Dialled in correctly, the sub also assists with the control of room nodes and the evenness of bass response.
I cross over at 38Hz and only apply subtle volume (10) to underpin the response of the main speakers. The REL sub is connected to the high level input and run from the speaker output terminals of the power amp to mirror the bass signature of the main system.
The TAD CR-1 is certainly not bass-shy and on some material, the addition of a sub is unnecessary. It does give me the flexibility to increase bass volume and extension to suit my taste. Because the REL Gibraltar has a remote control, this can easily be done from the listening position on a disc by disc basis.
I have owned my Conrad Johnson Premier 350SA from new, since 2004. It is my oldest system component and I am completely happy with it's performance, to the extent that I have not felt the need to seek an alternative. It delivers over 600 watts into a 4ohm load (TAD CR-1) and together with 66 amp current delivery, is powerful enough to drive almost any speaker system.
Totally with you on what a sub can do in a system with 'full range speakers'. We are cut off steeply above 40hz and volume is 14. But it adds SPACE...when you shut it off in the middle of a live jazz club track...the club 'collapses' from being 'in the club' to the club being a 2D flat surface that lives between the speakers and only a bit in front/behind. It also helps in scale...and yes, deep bass power. But it is the space and sense of live scale that really matters...plus, it does seem to add something to mids which i have never truly understood.
As for CJ...I have heard the magnificent 350SA and came 'this close' to buying one myself...Micro here also has had great things to say about it as well. And of course, as for CJ GAT 2...well, you know how much I like that one!
Totally with you on what a sub can do in a system with 'full range speakers'. We are cut off steeply above 40hz and volume is 14. But it adds SPACE...when you shut it off in the middle of a live jazz club track...the club 'collapses' from being 'in the club' to the club being a 2D flat surface that lives between the speakers and only a bit in front/behind. It also helps in scale...and yes, deep bass power. But it is the space and sense of live scale that really matters...plus, it does seem to add something to mids which i have never truly understood.
As for CJ...I have heard the magnificent 350SA and came 'this close' to buying one myself...Micro here also has had great things to say about it as well. And of course, as for CJ GAT 2...well, you know how much I like that one!
Agreed on adding sense of space, etc....but I don't agree that there is no sense of space and the image size, depth, etc...is limited to a 2D representation without a sub. Come on over and have a listen and you'll hear why I'm so sure of this. My stereo image is well outboard of both speakers, super-deep, emerges into the room and wraps around the listening position when recordings have all this level of info.
Out of curiousity, with the big Wilsons, what prompted to you cross them over at 40 Hz? I would have thought given their claimed specs. that you would still use a steep roll-off but at a lower frequency point. Thanks!
Agreed on adding sense of space, etc....but I don't agree that there is no sense of space and the image size, depth, etc...is limited to a 2D representation without a sub. Come on over and have a listen and you'll hear why I'm so sure of this. My stereo image is well outboard of both speakers, super-deep, emerges into the room and wraps around the listening position when recordings have all this level of info.
Out of curiousity, with the big Wilsons, what prompted to you cross them over at 40 Hz? I would have thought given their claimed specs. that you would still use a steep roll-off but at a lower frequency point. Thanks!
Well, i was only referencing our own system...very good without sub on 3D...but not at all in the same class as when sub is on. The jazz club really does disappear quite deflatingly if the sub is turned off. our listening distance is around 26' back, and with the cubic space the system has to fill, it really helps to have the DD18+.
As for crossover...that is a design limitation of the Velodyne DD18+...Wilson themselves tend to recommend crossover around 35-38hz even with their own Crossover/Thor I believe....someone closer to Wilson may know much more.
Well, i was only referencing our own system...very good without sub on 3D...but not at all in the same class as when sub is on. The jazz club really does disappear quite deflatingly if the sub is turned off. our listening distance is around 26' back, and with the cubic space the system has to fill, it really helps to have the DD18+.
As for crossover...that is a design limitation of the Velodyne DD18+...Wilson themselves tend to recommend crossover around 35-38hz even with their own Crossover/Thor I believe....someone closer to Wilson may know much more.
Absolutely...btw, i was just admiring your system...i see you use HRS DPX. Have you experimented with full HRS systems? I have gotten up to M3X shelves and lots of HRS damping plates/couplers. But never to the full-frame HRS systems. Just curious.
Absolutely...btw, i was just admiring your system...i see you use HRS DPX. Have you experimented with full HRS systems? I have gotten up to M3X shelves and lots of HRS damping plates/couplers. But never to the full-frame HRS systems. Just curious.
Thank you! I would love to hit the lottery and replace my entire rack system with either HRS's full-blown solution (too costly this past year or so) or ADONA's latest top of the line system that costs less but still employs proper Constrained Layer Damping. Mike Lavigne has at least one of the ADONA top-line racks and it looks to be an amazing solution.
The HRS M3X and other platforms and racks definitely have my interest for the future (as do Critical Mass that I've seen/experienced at 2 friends' homes) but frankly the price points on both the HRS or CM racks that I would want and need have been prohibitive.
That stated, the structural stability afforded by my ADONA AV45 modular racks combined with Composite Audio CF2010 platforms and HRS Damping plates have given me a sound in the system that I am having a hard time imagining how spending $35K-$50K on the final HRS or CM solutions I would need could deliver a substantial uptick in performance.
Where's that lottery ticket anyhow....it was right here a minute ago LOL !
Thank you! I would love to hit the lottery and replace my entire rack system with either HRS's full-blown solution (too costly this past year or so) or ADONA's latest top of the line system that costs less but still employs proper Constrained Layer Damping. Mike Lavigne has at least one of the ADONA top-line racks and it looks to be an amazing solution.
The HRS M3X and other platforms and racks definitely have my interest for the future (as do Critical Mass that I've seen/experienced at 2 friends' homes) but frankly the price points on both the HRS or CM racks that I would want and need have been prohibitive.
That stated, the structural stability afforded by my ADONA AV45 modular racks combined with Composite Audio CF2010 platforms and HRS Damping plates have given me a sound in the system that I am having a hard time imagining how spending $35K-$50K on the final HRS or CM solutions I would need could deliver a substantial uptick in performance.
Where's that lottery ticket anyhow....it was right here a minute ago LOL !
I hear that! I have to say...having experienced the benefits of the smaller HRS pieces...i do think that the full system probably would be mind blowing. Frank750 here has a pretty insane system...and he did the full monty HRS setup after going a few high end isolation systems and his feedback was pretty convincing to me. Someday!
I hear that! I have to say...having experienced the benefits of the smaller HRS pieces...i do think that the full system probably would be mind blowing. Frank750 here has a pretty insane system...and he did the full monty HRS setup after going a few high end isolation systems and his feedback was pretty convincing to me. Someday!
Karan KA-M 900 mono's , a match in heaven for TAD R1 Mk2's thanks to their musicality, tube like sound and high damping factor And they never get hot ! It's magical...My search is over. Highly recommended to all TAD speakers owners.
Karan KA-M 900 mono's , a match in heaven for TAD R1 Mk2's thanks to their musicality, tube like sound and high damping factor ? And they never get hot ! It's magical...My search is over. Highly recommended to all TAD speakers owners.
Karan KA-M 900 mono's , a match in heaven for TAD R1 Mk2's thanks to their musicality, tube like sound and high damping factor And they never get hot ! It's magical...My search is over. Highly recommended to all TAD speakers owners.
