Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, it's not so clear for me. And others that will only really listen to 16/44 material, possibly occasional 24/96. For me, the provenance of pressings maybe matters more than the open ended ability of Extreme to provide stuff recorded hi rez.

So, if I want to locate Who "Tommy", which has gone thru any number of incarnations on digital, the most recent ones being less listenable than the original cd version (not discussing my Jap and original Track Records vinyl pressings), it's the cd's that matters.

Hi Rez, and audiophile pressings of a vast amount of classical, yes I can see Extreme being the bees' knees.

16/44 classic rock, and pre-digital jazz and classical, pressings provenance surely matters more than Extreme's uber resolution of CURRENT pressings.

Happy to be proved wrong on this. My go-to examples being re-masters of classic prog on Tidal. Original masters don't exist on Tidal, or provenance is ambiguous.

For me, this is maybe the main reason to maintain a 3-way split in my library. My classic material on lp, current non-lp/retrospective boxsets material on cd, stuff unavailable on disc/hardcore Tidal finds/random punts/broadening of classical music education on streaming.

Even if Extreme knocked my knees out, would it appeal to a consumer like me who is 95% 16/44, genre and provenance specific?

 

[Steve Williams]

Happy to be proved wrong on this.

It'll be easy Marc

Like you I was the biggest skeptic and eternally happy with what I had but the facts are easy to prove. Tidal, Qubuz and the Extreme have opened up countless genres of music which I otherwise knew nothing about. I find that listening with the Extreme can go for hours as you surf through titles of music and when the session is over, I wonder. "how the heck did I get to this song?"

Marc I had all of the same arguments as you did. One cannot explain the countless virtues of the Extreme until they hear it in their system. This plus the fact that one doesn't have to go overboard and spend huge sums on a DAC when everyone has shown that an adequate DAC is all that one needs
Try it Marc. You might be surprised

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, I've had regular exposure to the evolving system of Blue58, from his Audio Aero cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8 (first using dac internal vol cntrl, then w Java Triple Shot optologic pre), to SGM/Aqua Formula dac, to current SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, w various subsequent upgrades/system changes to server and dac.

I remain hugely impressed by his sound, and I know SGM is a critical part of this. And I can well imagine how Extreme might sound there. Certainly trounces the poor servers I've heard w their almost 1980s cdp levels of harshness.

However, even with a hugely impressive server setup, there is so much variation on provenance, and I do feel his SGM based system lapses into harshness on a fair amount of material that I know is more sympathetically dealt with on vinyl, and even cd.

This feels more like a provenance issue ie Tidal, than it does the SGM. And tbh, it's not an issue on stuff that is
1- recorded more recently ie digital DDD mastered
2- higher quality sonics to start
3- has not gone thru multiple remastered versions where the current version Tidal uses is likely worse than the one used in the 80s or 90s.

Guys, i am NOT looking to diss Extreme. I totally respect SGM's lead, and know that Extreme rocks. It's more that it "looks" like it particularly excels in the use Mike puts it to, hi rez, modern classical and jazz recordings, sonically pure DDD modern stuff.

If I really wanted an evening of Atlantic/Impulse recordings era John Coltrane, followed by Cream and then 70s Miles Davis, would I truly get as immersed off Extreme, than as a session listening to Extreme focusing on hi rez modern classical, jazz and eg DDD Nils Frahm or London Grammar?

 

[Rhapsody]

Steve, I've had regular exposure to the evolving system of Blue58, from his Audio Aero cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8 (first using dac internal vol cntrl, then w Java Triple Shot optologic pre), to SGM/Aqua Formula dac, to current SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, w various subsequent upgrades/system changes to server and dac.

I remain hugely impressed by his sound, and I know SGM is a critical part of this. And I can well imagine how Extreme might sound there. Certainly trounces the poor servers I've heard w their almost 1980s cdp levels of harshness.

However, even with a hugely impressive server setup, there is so much variation on provenance, and I do feel his SGM based system lapses into harshness on a fair amount of material that I know is more sympathetically dealt with on vinyl, and even cd.

This feels more like a provenance issue ie Tidal, than it does the SGM. And tbh, it's not an issue on stuff that is
1- recorded more recently ie digital DDD mastered
2- higher quality sonics to start
3- has not gone thru multiple remastered versions where the current version Tidal uses is likely worse than the one used in the 80s or 90s.

Guys, i am NOT looking to diss Extreme. I totally respect SGM's lead, and know that Extreme rocks. It's more that it "looks" like it particularly excels in the use Mike puts it to, hi rez, modern classical and jazz recordings, sonically pure DDD modern stuff.

If I really wanted an evening of Atlantic/Impulse recordings era John Coltrane, followed by Cream and then 70s Miles Davis, would I truly get as immersed off Extreme as a session listening to Extreme focusing on hi rez modern classical, jazz and eg DDD Nils Frahm or London Grammar?

Marc, (Merry Xmas I believe that you WOULD get immersed and lost in the music described in your last paragraph streaming Qobuz/Extreme/good dac. If your aim is to forget about the system and enjoy and get mesmerized by the music then the Extreme will do that.

I don't ever think or say that the streaming/Extreme experience is better than cd's/files/vinyl/tape. What I experience is I get lost in the music with the Extreme/streaming and could care less if another format that I have to mess with the media vs. picking up the iPad and hitting play "sounds better". Streaming/Extreme sound is 100% acceptable to get totally lost and enjoy the musical performances. But that's just me, again Merry Xmas!

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, I've had regular exposure to the evolving system of Blue58, from his Audio Aero cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8 (first using dac internal vol cntrl, then w Java Triple Shot optologic pre), to SGM/Aqua Formula dac, to current SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, w various subsequent upgrades/system changes to server and dac.

I remain hugely impressed by his sound, and I know SGM is a critical part of this. And I can well imagine how Extreme might sound there. Certainly trounces the poor servers I've heard w their almost 1980s cdp levels of harshness.

However, even with a hugely impressive server setup, there is so much variation on provenance, and I do feel his SGM based system lapses into harshness on a fair amount of material that I know is more sympathetically dealt with on vinyl, and even cd.

This feels more like a provenance issue ie Tidal, than it does the SGM. And tbh, it's not an issue on stuff that is
1- recorded more recently ie digital DDD mastered
2- higher quality sonics to start
3- has not gone thru multiple remastered versions where the current version Tidal uses is likely worse than the one used in the 80s or 90s.

Guys, i am NOT looking to diss Extreme. I totally respect SGM's lead, and know that Extreme rocks. It's more that it "looks" like it particularly excels in the use Mike puts it to, hi rez, modern classical and jazz recordings, sonically pure DDD modern stuff.

If I really wanted an evening of Atlantic/Impulse recordings era John Coltrane, followed by Cream and then 70s Miles Davis, would I truly get as immersed off Extreme, than as a session listening to Extreme focusing on hi rez modern classical, jazz and eg DDD Nils Frahm or London Grammar?

marc

to me you are looking for validation as to why you shouldn’t use a server. Your arguments however are based on shear conjecture as you have no knowledge as to what it might do in your system.
Take it from me as I was of the same ilk. I’m so glad I have a server now as words only become hyperbole until you have one in your system.

 

[bonzo75]

marc

to me you are looking for validation as to why you shouldn’t use a server. Your arguments however are based on shear conjecture as you have no knowledge as to what it might do in your system.
Take it from me as I was of the same ilk. I’m so glad I have a server now as words only become hyperbole until you have one in your system.

Marc is conjecture. Apt.

 

[Rhapsody]

Steve, I've had regular exposure to the evolving system of Blue58, from his Audio Aero cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8 (first using dac internal vol cntrl, then w Java Triple Shot optologic pre), to SGM/Aqua Formula dac, to current SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, w various subsequent upgrades/system changes to server and dac.

I remain hugely impressed by his sound, and I know SGM is a critical part of this. And I can well imagine how Extreme might sound there. Certainly trounces the poor servers I've heard w their almost 1980s cdp levels of harshness.

However, even with a hugely impressive server setup, there is so much variation on provenance, and I do feel his SGM based system lapses into harshness on a fair amount of material that I know is more sympathetically dealt with on vinyl, and even cd.

This feels more like a provenance issue ie Tidal, than it does the SGM. And tbh, it's not an issue on stuff that is
1- recorded more recently ie digital DDD mastered
2- higher quality sonics to start
3- has not gone thru multiple remastered versions where the current version Tidal uses is likely worse than the one used in the 80s or 90s.

Guys, i am NOT looking to diss Extreme. I totally respect SGM's lead, and know that Extreme rocks. It's more that it "looks" like it particularly excels in the use Mike puts it to, hi rez, modern classical and jazz recordings, sonically pure DDD modern stuff.

If I really wanted an evening of Atlantic/Impulse recordings era John Coltrane, followed by Cream and then 70s Miles Davis, would I truly get as immersed off Extreme, than as a session listening to Extreme focusing on hi rez modern classical, jazz and eg DDD Nils Frahm or London Grammar?

Marc,

DON'T get an Extreme. If you purchase one then what would have to think and write about?

 

[bonzo75]

Marc,

DON'T get an Extreme. If you purchase one then what would have to think and write about?

You summarized him beautifully. I am kicking myself for not thinking of writing that

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, you need to read my words a little closer. I'm pretty much extolling virtues of SGM, and I always come away from Blue58 truly impressed w his sound, of which SGM i am fully aware is critical.

I do have an ongoing cognitive disconnect re the concept, but have decided my next big spend is v likely to be a streaming solution. I'm confident I'll find enough gems from "deep core" genre searches, and broadening appreciation of classical and "new" music like Nils Frahm, to make the expedition worthwhile. My tactile disconnect w IPad music navigation I'm sure will dispel.

For me its whether Extreme is more suited to high sonics material to begin with. I'm in a minority on WBF in running a library which can sound pretty challenging on the most resolution-driven sources, and the misgivings I have of 60s-80s prog and fusion thru SGM may be amplified on Extreme.

I'm gonna leave this here. My journey in audio ironically as a vinylphile is to have gotten some of my best playback via my cdp (after 25 years of me relentlessly dissing digital).

It may be that Extreme would remove my remaining disconnect, because I am confident it would tick nine boxes out of ten, the tenth one (masterings provenance) being one that may be 100% answered by having the very best digital source bar none.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You summarized him beautifully. I am kicking myself for not thinking of writing that

Ked, I have no issues taking criticism from Steve, Bob, Mike. It's constructive criticism, and on reflection 100% deserved.

Whereas from you, as someone who doesnt even have a system, it has no validity. So, come up w practical comments, or bother someone else. For a change.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, I have no issues taking criticism from Steve, Bob, Mike. It's constructive criticism, and on reflection 100% deserved.

Whereas from you, as someone who doesnt even have a system, it has no validity.

the system you own adds a lot of validity Marc, we see you discussing it with yourself every week.

That said, the digital, the phono, the cart, the supports, and the drivers I own are better than yours

 

[spiritofmusic]

You're getting there Ked. One last push...

 

[Rhapsody]

Marc, no criticism from me, just playing around

 

[LeBlanc]

@spiritofmusic : wouldn’t ripping your CD’s and playing them from the hard drive solve your issues wrt the recording version of your favorite albums? After all, streaming isn’t limited to Tidal and Qobuz.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, it's not so clear for me. And others that will only really listen to 16/44 material, possibly occasional 24/96. For me, the provenance of pressings maybe matters more than the open ended ability of Extreme to provide stuff recorded hi rez.

So, if I want to locate Who "Tommy", which has gone thru any number of incarnations on digital, the most recent ones being less listenable than the original cd version (not discussing my Jap and original Track Records vinyl pressings), it's the cd's that matters.

Hi Rez, and audiophile pressings of a vast amount of classical, yes I can see Extreme being the bees' knees.

16/44 classic rock, and pre-digital jazz and classical, pressings provenance surely matters more than Extreme's uber resolution of CURRENT pressings.

Happy to be proved wrong on this. My go-to examples being re-masters of classic prog on Tidal. Original masters don't exist on Tidal, or provenance is ambiguous.

For me, this is maybe the main reason to maintain a 3-way split in my library. My classic material on lp, current non-lp/retrospective boxsets material on cd, stuff unavailable on disc/hardcore Tidal finds/random punts/broadening of classical music education on streaming.

Even if Extreme knocked my knees out, would it appeal to a consumer like me who is 95% 16/44, genre and provenance specific?

Marc,

i have my 4000 CD's all ripped on my hard drive; a wide variety from the CD era, and still among my more visited digital files. i have my 200+ tracks i use repeatedly to verify changes. and they keep sounding better and better and better.

the bits don't change, but what i hear does.

we cannot argue access; if a person has silver disc flipping muscle memory that is essential to their happiness, who am i to question what an adult does behind closed doors?

OTOH if we are talking performance, or the luxury of easily building playlists and sitting back and enjoying, then it's the Extreme and not discs.

higher rez and access to anything anytime is beyond those attributes.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Guys, your input is all hugely appreciated. And yes, there are fewer and fewer reasons to not go down this path. I really didn't want this diversion to be about my choices (a guy not buying Extreme is OT when you think about it Lol). It was really to probe happy owners/users of Extreme, and to ask if provenance is more an issue thru a super-high end transport like this unit than more affordable/less bleeding edge solutions (we know what those are).

All of you Extreme owners are getting the same immersive quality whether you're playing hi rez, modern DDD masters, golden age classic rock/jazz/classical, esoteric music of varying provenance?

Extreme is consistent across the board, and consistently engaging?

 

[Rhapsody]

Guys, your input is all hugely appreciated. And yes, there are fewer and fewer reasons to not go down this path. I really didn't want this diversion to be about my choices (a guy not buying Extreme is OT when you think about it Lol). It was really to probe happy owners/users of Extreme, and to ask if provenance is more an issue thru a super-high end transport like this unit than more affordable/less bleeding edge solutions (we know what those are).

All of you Extreme owners are getting the same immersive quality whether you're playing hi rez, modern DDD masters, golden age classic rock/jazz/classical, esoteric music of varying provenance?

Extreme is consistent across the board, and consistently engaging?

It is for me. I'm listening to Internet Radio/RadioSwissClassique and I can't bear to change it as the Christmas music selections are beyond wonderful. Not thinking about the system or audio at all. Almost overwhelmed by the beauty of the music.

3D floating soundstage, totally immersive.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Isn't streaming bad for family life? You aficionados keep saying hours go by like mins
Isn't it bad enough that our partners put up w the hobby, without the hobby meaning even less contact for them? Lol

 

[Rhapsody]

Isn't streaming bad for family life? You aficionados keep saying hours go by like mins
Isn't it bad enough that our partners put up w the hobby, without the hobby meaning even less contact for them? Lol

The EXACT OPPOSITE I can't tell you how many customers that I have that once they started streaming, not necessarily with the Extreme, the significant others for the FIRST TIME started to use the system with them. Give most people the iPad and their goners.

It's all I do for demos anymore, hand them the iPad and say have fun.....and they do!

 

[spiritofmusic]

"The couples that IPad together, stay together."
No more divorces where each partner fights over broken jewel cases.