Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Congratulations to Emile and you
Do you or Emile have an explanation that Tidal MQA was the best streaming?
Thanks
Matt
Congratulations to Emile and you
Do you or Emile have an explanation that Tidal MQA was the best streaming?
Thanks
Matt
I have heard industry chit chat that there has been remastering going on during the processing to create MQA tracks.
Our German gear goes up to 10 GHz. We had to use an additional RF preamp to get good sensitivity for the lower frequencies
Maybe I missed this but has anyone been able to listen to the Extreme compared to the Aurender W20SE or W20. If so what were the impressions?
I tried to say it in part in posts https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-632313
and
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-632316
We must consider that the physical support of digital signals is an analog signal - subjectively we find that we can't send them between units without sending noise. People working in top optical instrumentation can perform operations in the optical domain - maybe they would be able to develop optical processors that can clean our digital data.
Or perhaps someday someone will develop a server using a quantic computer!
Last edited:
Look here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-138#post-626292
There is a passage where @romaz meant that his own diy server was superior to the W20SE and the Extreme is much better than his diy server.
Matt
I just had a big eye opener and I need to make a correction to my post above. I should have specifically stated that when I truly compared the C-7 with the Stromtank it was with my Innuos Statement. That is my mistake, especially being in an SGM Extreme thread, and I apologize if I misled anyone.
Now that I have had about 400+ hours on the Extreme, I tested the C-7 against the Stromtank, and with the Extreme on the Stromtank S1000 model, the loss in dynamics is just too much to be acceptable. It is very obvious. Maybe the Stromtank S2500 or S5000 might be better suited for the Extreme since they were designed to power high power amps, and not just the front end system like the S1000 model. The Extreme does not behave like "front end" equipment when it comes to power usage. It really moves the needle on the front of the Stromtank that shows how much juice is being consumed. The Statement barely moved it and makes sense being a low power server.
Another thing I noticed, my system sounds much better with the DCS Bartok plugged into the Stromtank and the Extreme plugged into the C-7. When both the DCS and Extreme are plugged into the C-7, I get that glare back that has been bothering me since before I got the Stromtank. I now think that glare was actually noise bleeding in between the two pieces of equipment. I am uber sensitive to glare/hardness so YMMV. This makes sense since @romaz mentioned the Sound Application conditioners do nothing for stopping noise between the equipment.
The S1000 model seems like a great way to separate the digital from the analog or in my case, the only two pieces of equipment I have for perfect isolation. I will receive my Monoprice fiber USB extension cable this Friday to get true galvanic isolation between the DCS unit and the Extreme and will post back.
I have to mention this again, the dynamics on the Extreme are just insanely good because they were better than the Statement when I was still using the Extreme on the Stromtank. Now that the Extreme is on the C-7, its an even bigger gap between the two servers.
I really think all Extreme owners need to thoroughly test different variations of how they are hooking up the Extreme in their system because it scales like no other equipment I have heard before. There might be a lot more still to be had from its performance and its easy to be awed by it even in a not so optimal setup.
Last edited:
Thanks for your posts and the clarification.
I too am sensitive to glare and hardness. If you are getting a return of glare with both components plugged into the same device you might want to explore some of Shunyata Research's power cords and power distribution devices. Shunyata specifically designs for the twin goals of not limiting instantaneous current delivery in any way (good for dynamics) and preventing component-to-component interference (good for eliminating glare caused by this kind of interference).
You could try one or two of their NR (noise reduction) series power cords, or go bigger and give a Denali or Triton power distribution unit a trial. There are some re-sellers who allow a 30-day money back trial period to take the risk out of the exercise. As you can see in my signature, I'm pretty heavily invested in Shunyata Research products. I've found they work very effectively for me.
(No affiliation with Shunyata Research other than as a satisfied customer)
Best regards,
Steve Z
Thanks to Romaz for sharing with us all these valuable experience for tweaking the extreme. I would certainly revisit this wealth of information very often. While I would agree to most if not all of his findings I do notice that I seem to be walking a different route and hopefully can still reach Rome some day. I can share some of my experience here.
About 2 weeks ago I started to test the footers for the extreme and it is a coincidence that I also ended up in using the CS2 footers but unfortunately I could only afford the 0.8. Presumably the 0.8 can stand up to 100lb(so is barely enough for the extreme) and it is good for source while 1.0 and 1.5 can be used for amplifiers and gears more than 100lb. We don't have the 1.0 or 1.5 for audition. Actually we started with the Terminator DAC first and the improvement is jaw dropping. As desribed by Romaz it is the immersiveness that is most striking. The layering and density also improves tremedously as well as the 'holes' in between members of the orchestra are filled up. Then we add a second set to the extreme there is further significant improvement along the same line. Adding a thrid set to the Cello preamp pushes the SQ even higher and I finally purchased 5 sets for my system. I hope to get some 1.5 for trial but I have some doubt can the effect of 1.5(money for one set of 1.5 can buy 3 or 4 sets of 0.8) be stronger than 3 or 4 sets of 0.8? Really tempted to get a set of 1.5 for comparison.
Second tweaks that I have tried is even more interesting is the Sablon cable. I have auditioned both the Sablon King power cord and the Sablon 2020 USB cable but they never meet in my system at the same time. I suspect there might be some synergy if they are present simultaneously in the system. Actually we have auditioned the Sablon King more than a year ago but unfortunately at that time my PS Audio P20 was sent for repair and because of the size and length of the Test sample Sablon King it can only be used with the Chord Blu 2 the result is good but not up to a level that it is a must for use in the system. I believe Mark did some modifications afterwards and it is now said to be a must with the power conditioner. A week ago I tried the unpowered Sablon 2020 USB cable in my system connecting extreme with SoTM tx-USB Ultra. Compared with my Habst Ultra III Cryoed silver USB cable it has a slightly warmer mid range but both the high and low are not as satisfying as my Habst cable. The weakest point about the Sablon 2020 in my system is that it lacks layering and that is why I think if the King Sablon is in my system the result may be different. Product synergy is one of the things that is most difficult to predict and sometimes may explain why YMMV.
Talking about the power cord for extreme our experience favour the Kubala Sosna Realization. This is the power cord that helps to give the layering and definition of details much better than the other power cords we have tried. The bass is really authoritative and with detail. We were testing with Wagner Das Rheingold by Solti. The opening 4 minutes Vorspiel gives a very good test for layering and detail of the bass and the system as a whole. When it is done right one can hear the different brass joining in one by one while backed by the double basses and then the different parts of the strings joins in before the voice comes into play. The drama just becomes live with the KS Realization.
I agree that the P20 is not ideal for power treatment but it is still beneficial to connect the power amp to it as it can still give you an increase in dynamics and ease of power delivery . So I only connect the amplifiers to P20 while the source gears and digital gears are connected to some other power conditioners with filters. I would certainly be interested to try the Sound Application TT-7 if it is available in Hon Kong.
On vibration control I understand that this is one of the areas that the extreme may benefit but it is not easy to do vibration control in a 45kg extreme. While I cannot afford the Taiko Tana active platform so I got hold of this FFYX technologies China designed anti-vibration platform that utilize the traditional air cushion for vibration control. By adding a birch plywood board on this platform before putting the extreme on top did add some liveliness to the sound. So the extreme has been sitting there since its first day. There is a significant improvement in SQ by turning on the air pump supplying the air cushions compared with turning off the pump. More analog as a whole.
The above is just my experience with tweaking the extreme for sharing. YMMV. And I believe there are still lots of room for improvement.
About 2 weeks ago I started to test the footers for the extreme and it is a coincidence that I also ended up in using the CS2 footers but unfortunately I could only afford the 0.8. Presumably the 0.8 can stand up to 100lb(so is barely enough for the extreme) and it is good for source while 1.0 and 1.5 can be used for amplifiers and gears more than 100lb. We don't have the 1.0 or 1.5 for audition. Actually we started with the Terminator DAC first and the improvement is jaw dropping. As desribed by Romaz it is the immersiveness that is most striking. The layering and density also improves tremedously as well as the 'holes' in between members of the orchestra are filled up. Then we add a second set to the extreme there is further significant improvement along the same line. Adding a thrid set to the Cello preamp pushes the SQ even higher and I finally purchased 5 sets for my system. I hope to get some 1.5 for trial but I have some doubt can the effect of 1.5(money for one set of 1.5 can buy 3 or 4 sets of 0.8) be stronger than 3 or 4 sets of 0.8? Really tempted to get a set of 1.5 for comparison.
Second tweaks that I have tried is even more interesting is the Sablon cable. I have auditioned both the Sablon King power cord and the Sablon 2020 USB cable but they never meet in my system at the same time. I suspect there might be some synergy if they are present simultaneously in the system. Actually we have auditioned the Sablon King more than a year ago but unfortunately at that time my PS Audio P20 was sent for repair and because of the size and length of the Test sample Sablon King it can only be used with the Chord Blu 2 the result is good but not up to a level that it is a must for use in the system. I believe Mark did some modifications afterwards and it is now said to be a must with the power conditioner. A week ago I tried the unpowered Sablon 2020 USB cable in my system connecting extreme with SoTM tx-USB Ultra. Compared with my Habst Ultra III Cryoed silver USB cable it has a slightly warmer mid range but both the high and low are not as satisfying as my Habst cable. The weakest point about the Sablon 2020 in my system is that it lacks layering and that is why I think if the King Sablon is in my system the result may be different. Product synergy is one of the things that is most difficult to predict and sometimes may explain why YMMV.
Talking about the power cord for extreme our experience favour the Kubala Sosna Realization. This is the power cord that helps to give the layering and definition of details much better than the other power cords we have tried. The bass is really authoritative and with detail. We were testing with Wagner Das Rheingold by Solti. The opening 4 minutes Vorspiel gives a very good test for layering and detail of the bass and the system as a whole. When it is done right one can hear the different brass joining in one by one while backed by the double basses and then the different parts of the strings joins in before the voice comes into play. The drama just becomes live with the KS Realization.
I agree that the P20 is not ideal for power treatment but it is still beneficial to connect the power amp to it as it can still give you an increase in dynamics and ease of power delivery . So I only connect the amplifiers to P20 while the source gears and digital gears are connected to some other power conditioners with filters. I would certainly be interested to try the Sound Application TT-7 if it is available in Hon Kong.
On vibration control I understand that this is one of the areas that the extreme may benefit but it is not easy to do vibration control in a 45kg extreme. While I cannot afford the Taiko Tana active platform so I got hold of this FFYX technologies China designed anti-vibration platform that utilize the traditional air cushion for vibration control. By adding a birch plywood board on this platform before putting the extreme on top did add some liveliness to the sound. So the extreme has been sitting there since its first day. There is a significant improvement in SQ by turning on the air pump supplying the air cushions compared with turning off the pump. More analog as a whole.
The above is just my experience with tweaking the extreme for sharing. YMMV. And I believe there are still lots of room for improvement.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I would
I would strongly encourage you to try a set of 1.5's under your Extreme because if you were hearing good results with the 0.8's, your result will go way up with the 1.5's
Personally I would remove the plywood platform and have your CS footers sitting on your lower shelf
As for vibration control your CS footers provide that
Recall months ago Emile stated that all one needs is
1. A good USB cable
2.A good power cord
3. A good set of footers
I would strongly encourage you to try a set of 1.5's under your Extreme because if you were hearing good results with the 0.8's, your result will go way up with the 1.5's
Personally I would remove the plywood platform and have your CS footers sitting on your lower shelf
As for vibration control your CS footers provide that
Recall months ago Emile stated that all one needs is
1. A good USB cable
2.A good power cord
3. A good set of footers
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
CS 2 settle quicker than version one and for whatever reason ( I cant explain why) the 1.5’s settle the quickest in 3-7 days whereas the 0.8’s and 1.0’s settle in 7-10 days
Truly excellent reports, thank you all for participating at this level!
@microstrip , I am going to spend some time responding to the interesting topic of piezo electricity sometime soon.
@microstrip , I am going to spend some time responding to the interesting topic of piezo electricity sometime soon.
Thanks Steve for your advice. I would certainly try get hold of a set of 1.5 for audition.
As for vibration control I tend to have some different opinion. I look at vibration control and footers as part of the process of frequency manipulation. Whilst doing their job of damping vibration (and so decrease some of the bad noise frequencies) the footers also impart some of their own natural resonances into the resultant sound. So to me footers are both a vibration damper and at the same time also a resonator. And sometimes the acoustics of the listening environment is a more significant determinant of whether the footers work or not. For example in my listening environment which are all concrete walls and tile floors metal footers tend to have a bad result. Stillpoints never work, titanium footers also does not perform well while wooden footers like ASI Topline footers work pretty well and also birch plywood platforms also help to give a lively sound.
Second point about anti-vibration platform is the coupling decoupling concept. From my experience provided all the gears above the anti-vibration platform are coupled (with rigid footers) then the anti-vibration platform will work. I am not sure about the CS2 footers I assume that they are couplers once they are settled. And the anti-vibration platform still works to improve SQ after use of the CS2 footers. So I guess I will continue to use them as they are now unless they turn out to be not significant in improving SQ. I have also tried putting CS2 footers beneath the birch plywood and the result is pretty bad (not only no improvement in SQ there is actually a deterioration in SQ in the opposite direction).
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The CS footers are NOT resonators. Period!!. You have it all wrong as to your inferences as to how the feet work. They don't switch from being a damper to a resonator. I have no idea why you think that'd there is nothing in the listening environment that is a more significant determinant as to whether the CS feet will work. You are overthinking and misthinking this. Get rid of the plywood and put a set of 1.5's under your Extreme (between the under part of the Extreme to the top of your shelf).The footers work according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics and have nothing to do with being a resonator. This is misinformation as is your putting the feet under the plywood or trying to use more than one set. They come with simple 3 line instructions
The footers are not meant to be under plywood. I would get rid of that piece of plywood
The footers are not meant to be under plywood. I would get rid of that piece of plywood
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Please read the instructions ONLY 4 feet are to be placed under a component. PERIOD! No more. Again you are overthinking and misthinking a very simple thing.
One set of 4. No more (not a set of 3 but a set of 4)
No plywood
If you got good results with the 0.8, you will get better results with a set of 1.0 and even better with a set of 1.5's
I'm sorry to correct you like this but what you are suggesting is just wrong with respect to the mode of acton of these CS 2 feet
Hi Steve,
just for my understanding:
How do you get four feet work stable under a piece of equipment?
Three feet determine a plane but adding a further one makes in my experience the setting of the device unstable.
Thank you
Matt
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The reality is it is very easy. Three is easiest BUT 4 is very doable. On rare occasions the underside of the component isn’t completely flat such that the 4th footer might not achieve firm application to the underside of the component above. If this happens a set of 3 shims is included with every set purchased. They are 3 thicknesses
1/32
1/64
1/128
i have a total of 76 feet in my system and only required a shim under one foot
On my other site
www.pitchperfectsound.com
there are FAQ’s which addresses the possible need for a shim. As stated however I have only one shim in my entire system if 76 feet
We can learn more about the technology with the patent search. https://patents.google.com/patent/US7290759B1/en
