For me guys sound quality is very important but not everything. Roon works well for me in a lot of ways and I won't sacrifice all of that functionality for an uptick in SQ. From what I'm reading that won't be necessary. I hope not.
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
I am of the same view. The GUI is very important and is the difference between a pleasurable experience and something highly irritating. Sound Quality is a given imo.
The GUI design and layout is very much the teams focus this week with a focus on easy, friendly, navigation
Want to understand what making this change could mean practically. If one converts the Extreme to "TAS", then what happens to Roon Core? Is it still active on the Extreme where it could be used dynamically by other systems? So can you have the Extreme running TAS and Roon Core still active for other Roon renderers to use? Or do you have to "switch back" somehow the Extreme between these systems (TAS to Roon) to utilize Roon Core? If the latter is the case, then that is a big deterrent to what made the Extreme a justifiable purchase at least for me. I want to walk over to a tablet/ iPad and hit play from any of the 3 Roon systems installed using the Extreme's Roon Core.
Sure we all seek the holy grail in sound (no exception here), but I think most also want a pleasant experience and many simply will be turned off by losing a lot of functionality or continued reliance on development of the interface. I'm just very suspect and skeptical of companies taking on the task of creating proprietary server software. No matter how well intentioned, its difficult to keep up the R&D vs a company like Roon with a much larger installed base. I could cite lots of examples...I have a Burmester 111 that is a nice component, but file storage is proprietary and the interface is poor, and its infrequently updated. I have an Aurender in an office system. The interface is better than many, but still, its no match for Roon. Not as stable and harder to navigate. My main system is CH C1 Mono, and pre-Extreme, it was running CH Precision's software in a UPnP setup. Definitely got it to a point where it was phenomenal sound quality (using a Melco NAS), and the interface was ok, but again, no real comparison to Roon. Had to live thru CH's development...initially wouldn't do "gapless playback", initially didn't have Tidal or Qobuz integration, certain UPnP setups had to be tweaked, and the database of metadata many times wouldn't locate files that were just transferred.
Anyway, not to rant, but this feels a little...here we go again...a boutique small audio company taking on the task of self development of a proprietary software. Want to be clear-- absolutely no knock to Emile and the stellar folks at Taiko, they are amazing. But taking on this task is a big undertaking, and distracting, and requires a big commitment to continued development.
Sure we all seek the holy grail in sound (no exception here), but I think most also want a pleasant experience and many simply will be turned off by losing a lot of functionality or continued reliance on development of the interface. I'm just very suspect and skeptical of companies taking on the task of creating proprietary server software. No matter how well intentioned, its difficult to keep up the R&D vs a company like Roon with a much larger installed base. I could cite lots of examples...I have a Burmester 111 that is a nice component, but file storage is proprietary and the interface is poor, and its infrequently updated. I have an Aurender in an office system. The interface is better than many, but still, its no match for Roon. Not as stable and harder to navigate. My main system is CH C1 Mono, and pre-Extreme, it was running CH Precision's software in a UPnP setup. Definitely got it to a point where it was phenomenal sound quality (using a Melco NAS), and the interface was ok, but again, no real comparison to Roon. Had to live thru CH's development...initially wouldn't do "gapless playback", initially didn't have Tidal or Qobuz integration, certain UPnP setups had to be tweaked, and the database of metadata many times wouldn't locate files that were just transferred.
Anyway, not to rant, but this feels a little...here we go again...a boutique small audio company taking on the task of self development of a proprietary software. Want to be clear-- absolutely no knock to Emile and the stellar folks at Taiko, they are amazing. But taking on this task is a big undertaking, and distracting, and requires a big commitment to continued development.
i think Roon is driving this bus. TAS is an answer to Roon not going far enough in the higher performance direction and causing a fork in the road where the Extreme approach is forced to make the change. and i appreciate that Emile and his team embracing the challenge. and Taiko has shown an ability to double-down when faced with other obstacles. they become opportunities.
we have to see where we are 90 days to 6 months into this change, give it a chance to get sorted out with lots of user feedback. who is taking the risk here, and making the effort? Roon will be there if we want it. but this fresh approach takes full advantage of the upside of the Extreme, and all the peripheral network investigations that have been going on. it does not need to be working across a broad spectrum of platforms.
personally, while i appreciate all the GUI slickness of Roon, i think i want a choice as to what compromises i'm accepting where and to choose less slickness and greater performance. and if i have to work through some issues count me in. i can always slum it with my vinyl.
we have to see where we are 90 days to 6 months into this change, give it a chance to get sorted out with lots of user feedback. who is taking the risk here, and making the effort? Roon will be there if we want it. but this fresh approach takes full advantage of the upside of the Extreme, and all the peripheral network investigations that have been going on. it does not need to be working across a broad spectrum of platforms.
personally, while i appreciate all the GUI slickness of Roon, i think i want a choice as to what compromises i'm accepting where and to choose less slickness and greater performance. and if i have to work through some issues count me in. i can always slum it with my vinyl.
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We will soon provide a more detailed overview of what TAS and TAP are all about. Let me just quickly assure you we will continue to support Roon, as we love their interface too! You will be able to switch between the software offerings via our upcoming mobile application, you absolutely do not have to give up on anything that you grew accustomed to. We try to make this as flexible as possible for all Extreme users.
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For me, as many above sound quality is paramount, GUI a far second. The ROON interface IMO is not my favorite, in fact as with most tablet - oriented GUIs you can only view one window at a time (song queue or search results for example but not both). I'd take plain old JRiver over it if the SQ and streaming integration were on par with ROON. I also applaud Emile for further pushing the boundaries and not just rev'ing the SW for proprietary sake but for further pursuit of better SQ. Not sure you can ask much more from a company after great products and great tech support.
Indeed,
it is perfect with Wi-Fi as well. After caching the Qobuz files to RAM I turn Wi-Fi off and play from RAM.
So no network activity during playback.
Matt
I do this with locally stored files, can I ask how you cache Qobuz files to RAM?
I'm wondering if my Roon Library and playlists
will be exportable to TAS?
I use a Mac with 4 GB RAM running the latest Audirvana. The Mac is connected via Wi-Fi only to ISP modem and router. The maximum memory allocated for tracks pre-load is 1 GB. After caching the files to RAM by Audirvana I turn Wi-Fi completely off. IMO, the advantage of Wi-Fi is that you do not have to unplug ethernet cables.
Matt
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I haven't found a way to do this yet as my roon is disabled. It is important for me as well
Agree, Roon is driving the bus, and I get it they don't appear to be listening to the needs of the audiophile community, based on everything I'm hearing from this forum, and manufacturers who have integrated (or tried to integrate) the product. I guess they feel they can discount instead thinking we're a small minority of enthusiasts and represent only a small portion of their business. Sigh. Still, I'm hopeful that with enough feedback perhaps they will listen/ adapt. Perhaps not, but at least for a while it appeared that the product could at least be tweaked to turn off much of the complexities and processing etc that drove subpar performance.
I applaud Emile and Taiko for taking the bull by the horns and providing a solution, but at the same time I'd like to keep some pressure on Roon and collectively do what I can to give them this feedback. May fall on deaf ears (so to speak!) but still seems worth it. I and maybe others have a significant investment in Roon and a significant investment in the Extreme, and I would like to see both working as it did across multiple platforms, optimized principally for sound quality, but also for the strength, stability, and universality of the interface.
Reading this thread opened my eyes about Roon:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/sound-quality-of-roon-build-537-retracted-claim/104416
Roon is in good company with Apple, both do not care about sound quality.
TAS is a great achievement
Matt
My sense is that Roon is about bringing a nice background music experience to your family room, bathroom and patio. There's nothing wrong with that-- and they do this very well.Reading this thread opened my eyes about Roon:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/sound-quality-of-roon-build-537-retracted-claim/104416
Roon is in good company with Apple, both do not care about sound quality.
TAS is a great achievement
Matt
People who listen to music are a small and unimportant subset of their customer base. Bring on TAS!
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Based on what? Roon has a lot of advanced features and supports just about all common file types and resolutions. While it may not be the best sounding software it is far from a background music player. Let’s try not to go overboard with these Roon rips.
I don't want to rip Roon. I just believe they are serving their primary customer which is not the tiny number of audiophiles who actually sit down in a carefully set up spot to, without distraction, listen to recorded music. It doesn't mean they don't care at all about their sound quality-- it just means the best sq is not their focus.
When, as reported, a new version of Roon comes out where sound quality actually goes down, I think that pretty much says it all.
