Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
I do use the MSB volume control. All my gear is in another room so I can't see the display. In addition, unless I'm infront of the IR flasher, I'm stuck with the volume setting. Being able to adjust in roon, I can adjust volume all over my place.....
Hardly ideal but ipcam + wireless ir remote extender ?
 
Jan 16, 2013
510
263
63
NYC
It kills me because I love the volume control in Roon when using a few tube preamps that don't have remote VC. Emile said it would reduce the SQ but I thought I could live with the reduction in SQ for the convenience factor. Although when I compared them, the SQ difference between using the Roon VC vs disabling it, was quite noticable. I haven't gone back to using the Roon vc and now I am used to it and enjoyng the jaw-dropping sonics.
 
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Likes: Taiko Audio

Kingsrule

Active Member
Feb 3, 2011
795
53
28
That's interesting, SFP modules on the networking side take about the same time to lose their initial veiling and gain dynamic expression / colour saturation. Did you notice similar gains on the MSB Pro?



Decrease buffer size / latency settings in the MSB control panel.
What is the "default" buffer size and what did you reduce it to? I sometimes get a pop when files change resolutions and I'll bet this will solve it.
Also do you change the resync delay?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
What is the "default" buffer size and what did you reduce it to? I sometimes get a pop when files change resolutions and I'll bet this will solve it.
Also do you change the resync delay?
Default is reliable, changed to minimum latency. This only really works well on a machine that is configured to run in "low latency" mode.

I do change the resync delay on my totaldac as it takes a bit of time to lock after the source resolution changes. I use 1500ms.
 

DMSB

Industry Expert
Aug 10, 2017
9
33
13
Hello Emile,
Agree with your tips.
I mostly listen to silver discs with my MSB Select Tranaport+DAC so I usually unplug all the ethernet cables from the Select Transport and from the dac Renderer to avoid inflow of noise.

However, removing the whole module out is rather clumsy/tedious.
Maybe MSB can have a future firmware update to enable switching off/cutting the electricity of unused modules?
Removing unused modules do not affect the sound of the DAC unless they are connected to cables “Except” the Renderer module. That module is a computer and needs to be on and active continuously so it can be ready to connect to a network. Removing it definitely has sonic benefits. Most people only either need the Renderer or the ProUSB so having only one plugged in is the best solution. It is possible to power down the Renderer from software but it would be a huge headache from a customer service perspective. From past experience we would get a rash of “failed” Renderer modules from customers who forgot they disabled them.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
“Except” the Renderer module. That module is a computer and needs to be on and active continuously so it can be ready to connect to a network. Removing it definitely has sonic benefits.
Thank you for confirming.

Free upgrade :)
 

DMSB

Industry Expert
Aug 10, 2017
9
33
13
For networking the best one for me so far is the Startech SFP1000ZXST. Btw do not "hot swap" them, I've killed one doing that.



It will probably work with windows in "wasapi" mode. You will lose some sound quality then though, may also be limited to 24/192.
As you many have noticed the ProISL system uses SFP modules. The ProISL is not however related to any computer protocol like Ethernet, so the SFP modules that work well with ProISL will be different than the one that work well with Ethernet. Use only optical modules that meet these specifications: 1310nm laser, SMF (Single Mode Fiber), LC duplex connectors, TX laser power can not exceed -3dbm (or you run the risk of burning out the receiver die). Many SFP modules were evaluated and they all worked, we selected the ones that worked the best, "however" there may be some combinations of SFP modules that do not work. Since the ProISL is significantly different from any other data protocol used with SFP modules any experience with which SFP modules work best in another application will not track with the ProISL. The ProISL was designed to allow hot swapping of the SFP laser modules ONLY, NEVER hot swap the entire ProISL input module! Always power down the DAC to remove or add any input module. Failing to power down the DAC when unplugging or adding a module could ruin the DACs motherboard.
 
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CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,254
365
83
Hong Kong
As you many have noticed the ProISL system uses SFP modules. The ProISL is not however related to any computer protocol like Ethernet, so the SFP modules that work well with ProISL will be different than the one that work well with Ethernet. Use only optical modules that meet these specifications: 1310nm laser, SMF (Single Mode Fiber), LC duplex connectors, TX laser power can not exceed -3dbm (or you run the risk of burning out the receiver die). Many SFP modules were evaluated and they all worked, we selected the ones that worked the best, "however" there may be some combinations of SFP modules that do not work. Since the ProISL is significantly different from any other data protocol used with SFP modules any experience with which SFP modules work best in another application will not track with the ProISL. The ProISL was designed to allow hot swapping of the SFP laser modules ONLY, NEVER hot swap the entire ProISL input module! Always power down the DAC to remove or add any input module. Failing to power down the DAC when unplugging or adding a module could ruin the DACs motherboard.
Hello Daniel,
Many thanks for these tips!

Very useful for MSB owners. They are not mentioned in the manuals and I guess most MSB dealers don't know about them.
Please share more!
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Use only optical modules that meet these specifications: 1310nm laser, SMF (Single Mode Fiber), LC duplex connectors, TX laser power can not exceed -3dbm (or you run the risk of burning out the receiver die).
Thank you. I get the TX laser power bit, it basically means to limit the SFP modules to 20km range, and verify Tx power, as it may still vary between models / brands, but is it possible for you to expand on why we couldn't use 1550nm wavelength modules?
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 6, 2013
407
20
18
I don’t understand the issue here. Pro USB has already provided SFP modules to connect to ProISL module. Why do one need extra SFP module?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
I don’t understand the issue here. Pro USB has already provided SFP modules to connect to ProISL module. Why do one need extra SFP module?
There's no issue, and you don't need extra SFP modules, some audiophiles just like to tweak. Feel free to ignore.
 

DMSB

Industry Expert
Aug 10, 2017
9
33
13
Thank you. I get the TX laser power bit, it basically means to limit the SFP modules to 20km range, and verify Tx power, as it may still vary between models / brands, but is it possible for you to expand on why we couldn't use 1550nm wavelength modules?
1550nm modules do work for the ProISL, however they are not optimal for this application. If you wanted a custom link to send ProISL more than 20km I would recommend 1550nm due to its lower adsorption loss. The drawbacks are that under 20km 1550nm has much (in theory and measured by us) higher jitter than 1310nm. This is due to two factors. One, the lasers for 1310nm are more stable at room temperature and two, 1310nm has near zero dispersion (dispersion directly adds jitter) in SMF (Single Mode Fiber). We have verified this in our lab and for the shorter links most likely encountered in use 1310nm had much better jitter performance. While 1550nm may be best for a computer data link (where all you need is error free data transfer) it is not optimal for the ProISL. As in pointed out in my previous post, ProISL is much different from other computer data links so your experience with them will not track. So while 1550nm has less adsorption loss in SMF for long (kilometer length) cables that loss is near zero for 1310nm over short cable lengths. The advantage of near zero dispersion and better laser stability of 1310nm create a much higher performance ProISL link for shorter cables of less than a few kilometers. Also if a customer decided to use 1550nm at one end of the link and 1310nm at the other end it would still work if the cable was reasonably short but the performance would be much degraded leading to a semi incompatibility that would be hard to diagnose.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
562
324
63
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Thank you DMSB, makes perfect sense, very useful information!
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,576
678
113
another significant step up tonight found by installing fibre cable from my NAS to the Extreme server. 15m of OS2 single mode fibre cable and a pair of SFP modules and and a FMC converter module. one SFP module plugs directly into a slot on the Extreme.

$350 in parts; 30 minutes to pull out my 50' run of Ethernet cable from my conduit and run the fibre with it. the Extreme immediately found the fibre and i had music. super easy.

lower noise on all sources; NAS and internal drive sources are a small but noticeable degree quieter; streaming sources a few degrees more quiet and more sexy bass too. Qobuz is really amazing sounding (it was already very, very good....now even better).

this plus the MSB Pro USB is a must do for any MSB dac user.
 

Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
191
66
28
South Korea
www.digitusupremo.com
I'm Taiko Audio dealer and beta tester.

Now Emile is developing SGM Extreme new update programs.

Yesterday, he requested me to test new update quality and find weak points.

The update was proceeded two times.

While Emile did update works, I didn't see his works.

I think two programs are installed and many settings were done.

Since new update was done, I have heard all zenre musics files with new updated Extreme.

My final opinion is like below :

1. Resolution is increased

2. Closer to Vinyl

3. Stage is larger

4. Extreme speed is increased

5. Windows is more stable

Emile wanted me to find weak points, but I can't find them.

Extreme quality is increased and Extreme's system is more stable.

FLAWLESS~!

You will receive Emile's wonderful update service in short time.



The most important thing is...

This fantastic update service is just started~!!!!!!
 

Esotar

VIP/Donor
Mar 28, 2016
191
66
28
South Korea
www.digitusupremo.com
I use only Entreq Atlantis Infinity or Olympus Infinity cables.

Entreq flagship cables are hard to say world no. 1 quality.

The reason is Entreq flagship cables don't have strong characters.

Just pass on lower noise signal to next components.

So my system sound is featureless, but flawless sound.

To add sound character in my system, one cable not to make by Entreq is used.


Light Harmonic [New Light Speed 20G [[[Custom]]] USB cable]


20G USB is very awesome, but dead very easily.

I pushed LH and new version 20G was released.

New version has no internal battery, and quality is increased a bit more.

Korean SGM Extreme customers all use LH 20G DE [[Custom version]]

I have schedule to send LH 20G DE to Emile.

The best USB cable is LH 20G DE, I think.

Not expensive ($ 2,320 / 1.6m), and very fast (in case of my executive product 20G [DE], 12GB/s)

After sending my 20G DE USB to Emile, I'm looking forward to know his feedback.

Ha Ha
 
Jan 16, 2013
510
263
63
NYC
I'm Taiko Audio dealer and beta tester.

Now Emile is developing SGM Extreme new update programs.

Yesterday, he requested me to test new update quality and find weak points.

The update was proceeded two times.

While Emile did update works, I didn't see his works.

I think two programs are installed and many settings were done.

Since new update was done, I have heard all zenre musics files with new updated Extreme.

My final opinion is like below :

1. Resolution is increased

2. Closer to Vinyl

3. Stage is larger

4. Extreme speed is increased

5. Windows is more stable

Emile wanted me to find weak points, but I can't find them.

Extreme quality is increased and Extreme's system is more stable.

FLAWLESS~!

You will receive Emile's wonderful update service in short time.



The most important thing is...

This fantastic update service is just started~!!!!!!
Emile made probably the same ajustments on my Extreme yesterday. I can pretty much agree exactly with your 5 points above. This took Emile 5 minutes to do and literally it was as significant as maybe upgrading an amplifier, dac or preamp in the system.

I am also using the FO set up that Mike mentioned above.

It is almost hard to believe what files and Qobuz sound like. Bravo Emile!!!
 
May 30, 2010
15,310
595
113
Portugal
another significant step up tonight found by installing fibre cable from my NAS to the Extreme server. 15m of OS2 single mode fibre cable and a pair of SFP modules and and a FMC converter module. one SFP module plugs directly into a slot on the Extreme.
(...)
Do you also have a fibre link from the Extreme to the home network? Can you tell us what SFP modules and FMC converter you are using?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,576
678
113
Do you also have a fibre link from the Extreme to the home network? Can you tell us what SFP modules and FMC converter you are using?
i miss spoke. this fibre link is directly from the Extreme to a Gigaswitch next to my NAS sitting upstairs. so it is the connection from my server to my home network. then i have a short Ethernet cable from that Gigaswitch to my NAS. in a few weeks all my files will be on the drives inside my Extreme. but for now i access most of my files from the NAS.

here are links to the pieces i installed last night; all spec'd by Emile. he also spec'd the settings on the FMC converter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0747WZ8LZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FWJMTXU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0099S4WYE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

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