Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Very much agreed, endless pointless circular argument over what’s best isn’t often that interesting... people explaining fully and articulately why they actually prefer something can be both interesting and valuable... and while no expert yes I would never argue who is best but also prefer Van Gogh, the depth of expression, the richness of ideas, the volatility of the brushstroke for me resonates much better (more wildly and movingly painterly)... and while I can appreciate the master’s skill and that minimal but absolute control and extraordinary articulation of light in Rembrandt’s brushstroke... but still I can look away. With Van Gogh it is always just hard to look away... his expressiveness is just fascinating.Sorry but this a misleading interpretation of audiophile comparisons. IMHO it does not matter which is better - although people can't resist saying calling their preferred of "better" .What matters is why people consider it pleases them more. I do not expect people telling me if Rembrandt is better than Van Gogh, but I can appreciate reading people with expertise in such subject comparing both styles. And yes, I know I prefer Van Gogh and although I do not expect to change just by reading such comparison , nobody knows ...
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Hello Mike,
Big congratulations!
It seems that many WBF members want to know your verdicts on it as soon as possible.
Haha
The EVO needs several months to burn-in.
The Extreme which got a much more elaborate powersupply section must need longer time to do so.
Our WBF friends have to be more patient.
the OCD guy i am, once i got it in my head that i wanted to move the Extreme down, i just had to do it. i listened for a while tonight, and it was sounding very fine indeed, but then i had to make it look right. i think i pulled a muscle in my forearm hefting the Extreme off the top.....but that will heal. it all just fit with good space around everything.
anyway; now i'm happy with it and can just listen and not worry about it. and the top is now clear for record albums when i'm doing that.
i have trouble relaxing and just letting the music come to me when something is out of place. i have to act and get that out of my mind.
anyway; now i'm happy with it and can just listen and not worry about it. and the top is now clear for record albums when i'm doing that.
i have trouble relaxing and just letting the music come to me when something is out of place. i have to act and get that out of my mind.
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Then both you and Micro prefer vinyl to digital because in my analogy Rembrandt represented digital and Van Gogh vinyl
Actually you are 100 per cent correct... originally I bracketed after Van Gogh with the words (more analogue) lol... but went in for a quick edit when I realised then that I’d painted myself into a cornerThen both you and Micro prefer vinyl to digital because in my analogy Rembrandt represented digital and Van Gogh vinyl
PS yes I do love analogue and good digital... mostly I just love music. I grew up with recording audio on reel to reel for my uncle’s film company... I have detoured a might since then.
This is what I don't get about the analog vs. digital debate that I've been listening to since the 80's. If you are an equipment junkie/aficianodo then it makes perfect sense to continue to discuss "which one is better/more to someone's liking" adnauseum until the "cows come home".
On the other hand if one loves music and they have both great digital (files and streaming), great vinyl and throw in great R2R, then all of these formats should provide for tantilizing listening sessions, continually receiving goose-pumps from the music they love regardless of the format that one is listening to.
I for one am MUCH more into the music and as long as a particular format has the capability to give me a STRONG emotional connection to the music and when listening and I am totally absorbed with the music I could care less what format is being used.
I honestly can say that with my streaming, file playing, R2R or vinyl each one, which probably are not at the el supreme level that is possible, but are so good that I could care less which format I am listening to as I am again totally absorbed by the musical experience that is playing.
On the other hand if one loves music and they have both great digital (files and streaming), great vinyl and throw in great R2R, then all of these formats should provide for tantilizing listening sessions, continually receiving goose-pumps from the music they love regardless of the format that one is listening to.
I for one am MUCH more into the music and as long as a particular format has the capability to give me a STRONG emotional connection to the music and when listening and I am totally absorbed with the music I could care less what format is being used.
I honestly can say that with my streaming, file playing, R2R or vinyl each one, which probably are not at the el supreme level that is possible, but are so good that I could care less which format I am listening to as I am again totally absorbed by the musical experience that is playing.
I believe when you are solely focussed on the sonics you are much more aware of the limitations of the sonics of the format.
When you are instead completely focussed on performance of the music the format then tends to cease to be an issue. With music it’s great performances that transcend the mundane.
When you are instead completely focussed on performance of the music the format then tends to cease to be an issue. With music it’s great performances that transcend the mundane.
I think I liked it better on top next to the turntable.
It gives a better Mano a Mano presentation for us here at WBF.
Please move back to top shelf when your arm heals.
regarding comments about (1) whether certain systems are oriented toward (or voiced to optimize certain music on) vinyl, and (2) the idea of comparing digital and analog.
i cannot speak for anyone else, but my system building has always been toward natural tonal neutrality and musical truth. get the room and system out of the way of the recording. and i've been a format comparison junkie since way back.......since i had my Linn CD-12 and Basis 2500/Koetsu RSP into the early Aesthetix Io phono stage in 98' and 99'......then later the Marantz & EMM Labs verses my Rockport Sirius III.......and so on. and comparing the degree of musical connection between formats (including PCM and dsd, even 2 channel and multi-channel......and headphones) has been a fun thing for me to enjoy.
my system is absolutely not favoring one format over another, and my intention is not to have source gear that strays from natural neutrality. when i listen to my current sources, including my analog tape, to my ears they are all of a piece. which is the idea. i want to pursue the music itself, and my mood will dictate which format.
there are differences between the presentation of the formats, but as each format gets better they have less of that character and become more alike.
i'm not ready to get into details about what i'm hearing from the Extreme; i'm still working with Emile to optimize it. but i can say that it does space and scale in an effortless way that certainly approaches top level vinyl in a way i've not before heard from digital. but i've not played a record yet. does it come close? stay tuned.
i cannot speak for anyone else, but my system building has always been toward natural tonal neutrality and musical truth. get the room and system out of the way of the recording. and i've been a format comparison junkie since way back.......since i had my Linn CD-12 and Basis 2500/Koetsu RSP into the early Aesthetix Io phono stage in 98' and 99'......then later the Marantz & EMM Labs verses my Rockport Sirius III.......and so on. and comparing the degree of musical connection between formats (including PCM and dsd, even 2 channel and multi-channel......and headphones) has been a fun thing for me to enjoy.
my system is absolutely not favoring one format over another, and my intention is not to have source gear that strays from natural neutrality. when i listen to my current sources, including my analog tape, to my ears they are all of a piece. which is the idea. i want to pursue the music itself, and my mood will dictate which format.
there are differences between the presentation of the formats, but as each format gets better they have less of that character and become more alike.
i'm not ready to get into details about what i'm hearing from the Extreme; i'm still working with Emile to optimize it. but i can say that it does space and scale in an effortless way that certainly approaches top level vinyl in a way i've not before heard from digital. but i've not played a record yet. does it come close? stay tuned.
Hi Mike,
Are you using JPlay/Tidal or Roon/Tidal/HQPlayer?
If you’ve lost Roon how are you finding the experience, negative or similar?
I also think it should be at the bottom on a Tana platform and the two power bases parallel to the Select.
Cheers
Blue58
Are you using JPlay/Tidal or Roon/Tidal/HQPlayer?
If you’ve lost Roon how are you finding the experience, negative or similar?
I also think it should be at the bottom on a Tana platform and the two power bases parallel to the Select.
Cheers
Blue58
I think I liked it better on top next to the turntable.
It gives a better Mano a Mano presentation for us here at WBF.
Please move back to top shelf when your arm heals.
i appreciate your viewpoint. but i think the pecking order is pretty much how it's going to be.
i prefer the 'mass' of the Extreme down lower as the 2 racks look more balanced. plus......room for another tt or a place to manage the vinyl easily.
Hi Mike,
Are you using JPlay/Tidal or Roon/Tidal/HQPlayer?
If you’ve lost Roon how are you finding the experience, negative or similar?
I also think it should be at the bottom on a Tana platform and the two power bases parallel to the Select.
Cheers
Blue58
no HQPlayer since the MSB prefers bit perfect. so using Roon/Tidal right now.....and JPlay is one of my zones to try but have not really used it yet.
the reason that the Extreme is in the middle is that the power plug on the rear of the Extreme would be a conflict with my Tripoint Elite sitting behind it if the Extreme was on the bottom. the Extreme has a very deep chassis. i do agree aesthetically that would be preferable.
another $16k for an additional Tana platform for the Extreme is not in the cards. i'm very happy with my HiFi Stay Trinia + Dazia + Dazia footers which are under both MSB Powerbases, the Extreme, and under both the Tripoint Elite and Troy Reference. adding this Adona rack allows all those passive devices to be optimized.
i do appreciate that the Adona rack has a very solid connection to support the Extreme in that spot.
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Mike, I had wondered what the cost of a Tana platform was. I guess that can always be a future upgrade option.
No, it makes perfect sense to debate analog versus digital even you are not an equipment junkie/aficionado. Stereo reproduction is a challenging subject, and many of us like debating it. And the fundamnental and technical differences between digital and analog are enough to justify this long debate you address - I have read great articles on it, both by professionals, experts and amateurs.
Sound reproduction is not live music. It is a very different experience and better systems and good understanding of them, as well as personnel involvement of the listener in building the system, can result in a stronger emotional connection with music. IMHO it is why many of us come regularly to WBF. Our debates are part of it.
Sorry but I must say that I feel uneasy when other people try to tell us what audio subjects should be debated or not in this forum.
Of course, then debate away, enjoy! If you want me I'll be in the bar
In no way was I telling anyone what to or not what to debate, I was saying that I personally did not understand the debate as again I personally love listening to music vs. debating about what format "sounds better". I also play acoustic guitar, nylon and steel, for around 2 hours each day and no audio system, regardless of price or formats even come close to playing and hearing what I am playing, so again for me formats don't matter much as long as they let me enjoy music. Debating formats is for others, it just doesn't resonate with me.
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Of course, then debate away, enjoy! If you want me I'll be in the bar
I am sure that after you have a few drinks you will not resist coming in the debate ...
I am sure that after you have a few drinks you will not resist coming in the debate ...
Btw, I don't drink
I thought about it and again, this is just me, not trying to suggest for anyone else, but I enjoy immensely not necessarily debate but good strong interactive, respectful conversation regarding the differences say in vinyl, between tables, cartridges, arms, suspension etc.
In digital, the differences in dacs, serverers, connecctions via usb/aes/I2s are all very interesting to me and very informative.
Even in R2R - tape preamps Studers vs Ampex etc.
Personally all of these conversations are very educational and entertaing as well. It's when the comparisons are about one format vs. another that just doesn't as I said above resonate with me, BUT that's just me, nothing to do with anyone else.
So I enjoy the "in format" discussions others enjoy debating format vs. format. To each their own, just so everyone is a happy camper!
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some progress down the road of discovery about the Extreme.
Emile did load some files of various resolutions from my NAS onto the 2tb internal drives standard on my Extreme, which allowed me to directly compare the files from the NAS (over both USB and the Renderer) and after lots of back and forth i do prefer the internal drive files to the NAS files. definitely a little more lively, vivid and musically nuanced with the internal drive......and the bass is a little more powerful and interesting. i can only say in my system worth pursuing.
so i'll be adding those drives to take it to 32tb's and which will hold all my files. the dual NAS units will be back up.
currently i prefer the USB interface to the Renderer after optimization by Emile.
today i added Qobuz 'Sublime' one year subscription. it does sound much better than Tidal. we will be working on the fiber network to optimize the streaming performance.
overall i'm thrilled with what i'm hearing from the MSB - Extreme both from the files and Qobuz.
last night after i did the file compares i played some vinyl for the first time in a week and the first time since the Extreme arrived. there are aspects of the best digital that get into the feeling of the vinyl. but vinyl, to my ears, in my system right now, is a whole different level of musical realism from the best digital has to offer. this digital can move me emotionally....it's does space and tone, and gets the textures and power of the music.....it lacks nothing. vinyl grabs me and pulls me into the music. more of everything. it's epic. it would be interesting if i had this level of digital 3-4 years ago to compare to my vinyl then.
it's a great time for both digital and vinyl lovers.
Emile did load some files of various resolutions from my NAS onto the 2tb internal drives standard on my Extreme, which allowed me to directly compare the files from the NAS (over both USB and the Renderer) and after lots of back and forth i do prefer the internal drive files to the NAS files. definitely a little more lively, vivid and musically nuanced with the internal drive......and the bass is a little more powerful and interesting. i can only say in my system worth pursuing.
so i'll be adding those drives to take it to 32tb's and which will hold all my files. the dual NAS units will be back up.
currently i prefer the USB interface to the Renderer after optimization by Emile.
today i added Qobuz 'Sublime' one year subscription. it does sound much better than Tidal. we will be working on the fiber network to optimize the streaming performance.
overall i'm thrilled with what i'm hearing from the MSB - Extreme both from the files and Qobuz.
last night after i did the file compares i played some vinyl for the first time in a week and the first time since the Extreme arrived. there are aspects of the best digital that get into the feeling of the vinyl. but vinyl, to my ears, in my system right now, is a whole different level of musical realism from the best digital has to offer. this digital can move me emotionally....it's does space and tone, and gets the textures and power of the music.....it lacks nothing. vinyl grabs me and pulls me into the music. more of everything. it's epic. it would be interesting if i had this level of digital 3-4 years ago to compare to my vinyl then.
it's a great time for both digital and vinyl lovers.
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