Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Hieukm]

No disrespect but I don’t think this type of questioning makes sense tbh. We need to move beyond this and accept they are different modalities and accept each for what they are and their respective virtues. Ymmv imho etc.

I think it is more insightful to know how much better this has made Mike’s digital in absolute terms and how it compares to other digital transports.

I think without visting Mile then it is absolutely everything we know about his digital in absolute term is only words(although Mike is very good with them). Comparision to other digital transports have never been Mike's intention since he just bought the best. In term of comparison, this thread has plenty of useful indication from other user.

This server was mentioned by CKKeung and Esotar to being the best digital has to offer for now and maybe another two year so i assume we would all be at the edge of our seat to find out its performance vs analogue source. Same when another uber price DAC released: "MSB select 3", "Aries Cerat new 3 chassis flagship", "Wadax flagship" the first question pop would general be how are they compare to vinyl, tape because obviously they are better than their previous predecessor.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

ok; tonight i received some longer power cords for the MSB power-bases which now allows me to use my new Adona rack which is more friendly to my passive resonance control and also allows me to move the Tripoint Elite to behind the new rack and eliminate that unsightly little table i was using for one of my power bases on the right side of my main rack. you can see the Elite now sitting behind the new rack in the last picture below.

first thing i did was to compare the new longer power cords to the old shorter one's to make sure there was no performance loss. even brand new and cold i could not hear any difference. MSB had done some testing and felt good about it, but encouraged me to check it for myself. thank you to MSB for working with me on this small but important to me thing.

Micro always scolds me for changing too many things at once, and here i'm doing it again. but i can easily hear what my new set-up is doing better than earlier tonight before the changes, just by now having everything on a similar passive approach.

you can see the new taller rack on the left. i got it taller so i have room for the 4 shelves if i decide to add another tt at some point. now looking at it i think i will not wait for another turntable, but will move the Extreme to a shelf under the top when i have someone to help guide that beast between those legs. i can tell you it was a real chore to get that over 100+ pound Extreme (with all that beautiful casework) on top of that shelf by my lonesome tonight. scared the crap out of me i was going to drop it.

 

[Taiko Audio]

you can see the new taller rack on the left. i got it taller so i have room for the 4 shelves if i decide to add another tt at some point. now looking at it i think i will not wait for another turntable, but will move the Extreme to a shelf under the top when i have someone to help guide that beast between those legs. i can tell you it was a real chore to get that over 100+ pound Extreme (with all that beautiful casework) on top of that shelf by my lonesome tonight. scared the crap out of me i was going to drop it.

Beautiful photos Mike. I agree that the left rack looks more "spacious", then again all silver on the top shelves looks good too.

 

[CKKeung]

Hi Mike,
Can I confirm that for local file playback, do you connect Extreme to NAS or you copy your files to local storage in Extreme? I thought the best playback is to have files in Extreme.

I always prefer playback of internally stored files to those stored in NAS.
Much much fewer confounding factors to take care of for the former.

And even more so now with the optane storage inside the Extreme.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I always prefer playback of internally stored files to those stored in NAS.
Much much fewer confounding factors to take care of for the former.

And even more so now with the optane storage inside the Extreme.

Agree it's better, although we have made significant improvements to the playback quality of network based sources, so much so that it beats local SSD storage, it's no match for the Extreme's PCIe storage with its cpu integrated disk controllers.

But we have to be realistic here, streaming is not just about sound quality, it is also about convenience. 32TB of internal storage still comes with a quite hefty price tag of around USD 4000 today (prices vary). And you want to have backups of that too. Mike has a double 30TB nas setup, I could see why you would call it a day on that. Especially since its not his only source.

Running Fiber networking would help here too, it significantly improves streaming performance everywhere we've installed it so far, and it even helps local file playback performance.

With all that said, vinyl and digital playback will never sound the same. Vinyl and CD have never been the same, streaming and vinyl will never be the same either. It's conceptually just to different.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I think without visting Mile then it is absolutely everything we know about his digital in absolute term is only words(although Mike is very good with them). Comparision to other digital transports have never been Mike's intention since he just bought the best. In term of comparison, this thread has plenty of useful indication from other user.

This server was mentioned by CKKeung and Esotar to being the best digital has to offer for now and maybe another two year so i assume we would all be at the edge of our seat to find out its performance vs analogue source. Same when another uber price DAC released: "MSB select 3", "Aries Cerat new 3 chassis flagship", "Wadax flagship" the first question pop would general be how are they compare to vinyl, tape because obviously they are better than their previous predecessor.

Hi,

I won’t reply here with lots of text here because I don’t want to derail the thread and this isn’t something worth objectively discussing. Apples vs oranges to me.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Agree it's better, although we have made significant improvements to the playback quality of network based sources, so much so that it beats local SSD storage, it's no match for the Extreme's PCIe storage with its cpu integrated disk controllers.

But we have to be realistic here, streaming is not just about sound quality, it is also about convenience. 32TB of internal storage still comes with a quite hefty price tag of around USD 4000 today (prices vary). And you want to have backups of that too. Mike has a double 30TB nas setup, I could see why you would call it a day on that. Especially since its not his only source.

Running Fiber networking would help here too, it significantly improves streaming performance everywhere we've installed it so far, and it even helps local file playback performance.

With all that said, vinyl and digital playback will never sound the same. Vinyl and CD have never been the same, streaming and vinyl will never be the same either. It's conceptually just to different.

Beautifully put, Emile.

 

[Hieukm]

Hi,

I won’t reply here with lots of text here because I don’t want to derail the thread and this isn’t something worth objectively discussing. Apples vs oranges to me.

EVO Extreme server compare to LP is not worth discussing? I hardly think so but each to their own i guess

 

[Taiko Audio]

Beautifully put, Emile.

Thanks!

EVO Extreme server compare to LP is not worth discussing? I hardly think so but each to their own i guess

Sure, but then again, which vinyl setup would sound like Mike's? His entire vinyl chain, from source to amplifiers, sits on active isolation platforms. That alone quite radically changes the sound. Whether you would like this or not in your own system is irrelevant, fact is it sounds radically different from, let's say more conventional setups. I have several active platforms here, I don't use them, not because they're not good, but they just change the sound by so much I won't be able to design for repeatable performance when using them.

During the Extreme design phase I've listened to a lot of vinyl setups, or rather systems build around vinyl. I'm emphasising "around" here as each vinyl based system sounds more different then similar to me, as a lot of component choices where made to get the desired result from their turntables. Each and all musical and enjoyable, but quite different nonetheless. I've attempted to replicate these system sound signatures in my own room, and I was able to mimic most of them, but they would each sound significantly different. So I ended up settling for what sounds neutral to me and get a few important things right without exaggerating them, like good bass quality, power and authority, complete soundstage retrieval, 3D imaging, high frequency air and delicacy etc. Each of the Vinyl system owners have been here in my room, several times during the process, and they all gave me a thumbs up on the final design/voicing.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

EVO Extreme server compare to LP is not worth discussing? I hardly think so but each to their own i guess

Not worth discussing imho because it is like saying who is better a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh. Both are great artists using radically different approaches - the end product is still beautiful but the way it arrives there is radically different. No need to try to argue who is better because it makes no sense to do so. Ymmv.

 

[bonzo75]

Not worth discussing imho because it is like saying who is better a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh. Both are great artists using radically different approaches - the end product is still beautiful but the way it arrives there is radically different. No need to try to argue who is better because it makes no sense to do so. Ymmv.

I think we should all accept that arguing what is better, debating, and light sparring is what adds fun to the hobby.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I think we should all accept that arguing what is better, debating, and light sparring is what adds fun to the hobby.

If that is the forum mentality, I kindly bow out tbh. Not worth the time.

 

[Hieukm]

Thanks!



Sure, but then again, which vinyl setup would sound like Mike's? His entire vinyl chain, from source to amplifiers, sits on active isolation platforms. That alone quite radically changes the sound. Whether you would like this or not in your own system is irrelevant, fact is it sounds radically different from, let's say more conventional setups. I have several active platforms here, I don't use them, not because they're not good, but they just change the sound by so much I won't be able to design for repeatable performance when using them.

During the Extreme design phase I've listened to a lot of vinyl setups, or rather systems build around vinyl. I'm emphasising "around" here as each vinyl based system sounds more different then similar to me, as a lot of component choices where made to get the desired result from their turntables. Each and all musical and enjoyable, but quite different nonetheless. I've attempted to replicate these system sound signatures in my own room, and I was able to mimic most of them, but they would each sound significantly different. So I ended up settling for what sounds neutral to me and get a few important things right without exaggerating them, like good bass quality, power and authority, complete soundstage retrieval, 3D imaging, high frequency air and delicacy etc. Each of the Vinyl system owners have been here in my room, several times during the process, and they all gave me a thumbs up on the final design/voicing.

I believe his digital and vinyl are current state of the art and put on equal foundation on cables, grounding and virbation. If i read your message correctly, are you saying your active vibration bring different sound but not better sound?? Therefore no way to gauge Mike digital vs vinyl? Or are you saying your active vibration products bring different benefits to Mike digital and vinyl??

 

[Taiko Audio]

I believe his digital and vinyl are current state of the art and put on equal foundation on cables, grounding and virbation. If i read your message correctly, are you saying your active vibration bring different sound but not better sound?? Therefore no way to gauge Mike digital vs vinyl? Or are you saying your active vibration products bring different benefits to Mike digital and vinyl??

What I was trying to convey is: Mike's vinyl will likely sound more different to other vinyl setups then usual due to active vibration control, which is not that commonly used.

Let me add I'm not trying to convince Mike to buy 3 more active platforms for his digital setup

 

[Hieukm]

What I was trying to convey is: Mike's vinyl will likely sound more different to other vinyl setups then usual due to active vibration control, which is not that commonly used.

Let me add I'm not trying to convince Mike to buy 3 more active platforms for his digital setup

I wish you would have forget about dealer bias and just say better instead of different.

 

[microstrip]

Not worth discussing imho because it is like saying who is better a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh. Both are great artists using radically different approaches - the end product is still beautiful but the way it arrives there is radically different. No need to try to argue who is better because it makes no sense to do so. Ymmv.

Sorry but this a misleading interpretation of audiophile comparisons. IMHO it does not matter which is better - although people can't resist saying calling their preferred of "better" . What matters is why people consider it pleases them more. I do not expect people telling me if Rembrandt is better than Van Gogh, but I can appreciate reading people with expertise in such subject comparing both styles. And yes, I know I prefer Van Gogh and although I do not expect to change just by reading such comparison , nobody knows ...

 

[microstrip]

What I was trying to convey is: Mike's vinyl will likely sound more different to other vinyl setups then usual due to active vibration control, which is not that commonly used. (...)

Are you saying that active active vibration control does more than just isolation to turntables?

 

[microstrip]

(...) During the Extreme design phase I've listened to a lot of vinyl setups, or rather systems build around vinyl. I'm emphasising "around" here as each vinyl based system sounds more different then similar to me, as a lot of component choices where made to get the desired result from their turntables. Each and all musical and enjoyable, but quite different nonetheless(...)

Great to read your clear sentence. I wrote similar things about vinyl systems in WBF and got a lot of disagreement on them!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Sorry but this a misleading interpretation of audiophile comparisons. IMHO it does not matter which is better - although people can't resist saying calling their preferred of "better" . What matters is why people consider it pleases them more. I do not expect people telling me if Rembrandt is better than Van Gogh, but I can appreciate reading people with expertise in such subject comparing both styles. And yes, I know I prefer Van Gogh and although I do not expect to change just by reading such comparison , nobody knows ...

Hi Francisco,

Sorry for short reply - can’t be arsed to discuss this stuff. Ymmv.

 

[microstrip]

Hi Francisco,

Sorry for short reply - can’t be arsed to discuss this stuff. Ymmv.

No problem. I was not just answering you - I do not expect you to change your view. But I think that people who participate and feed such threads in WBF should know that some people value their contributions on this subject.