Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

OK, my question only addressed the RJ45 connection between server and DAC, nothing else.
Should we conclude that connecting the Extreme to a DAC using 100Mbit ethernet compromises the possible sound quality of this mode?

This is why I asked you about the DCS ethernet link speed, because if its 100Mbit, and you connect it directly to the Extreme, then bridge the Extreme’s network adapters (as the ethernet renderer still needs a network), then both adapters will run at 100Mbit.

 

[Kingsrule]

Emile

Might be a good thing to show a picture of the back of Extreme showing the connections u are talking about

 

[microstrip]

This is why I asked you about the DCS ethernet link speed, because if its 100Mbit, and you connect it directly to the Extreme, then bridge the Extreme’s network adapters (as the ethernet renderer still needs a network), then both adapters will run at 100Mbit.

Thanks. According to member Kingsrule and my Netgear GS108 the DCS Vivaldi is 1Gbit. However although all my house network equipment speed is 1 Gbit, the optical fiber connection throughout to the net provider is just 100 Mbit - limited intentionally by the company - IMHO the bottleneck will most of the time be on this link to the streaming company, not on the house equipment.

Am I correct assuming that for users of 100 Mbit input DACs your preferred suggestion was putting a 100 Mbit / 1Gbit router between the Extreme and the DAC to keep the Extreme working at 1Gbit?

 

[Rhapsody]

Emile

Might be a good thing to show a picture of the back of Extreme showing the connections u are talking about

It is already a few pages back in this thread....here it is again. You CANNOT see the optical send/receive connectors in the pic. They are located in one of the slots between the power input (far right) and the usb/network connections.

 

[Taiko Audio]

IMHO the bottleneck will most of the time be on this link to the streaming company, not on the house equipment.

It’s not a bandwidth issue, it’s utilisation versus time, your internet router will still most likely run at 1Gb. With the same amount of traffic, 1Gb link utilisation will be lower.

Am I correct assuming that for users of 100 Mbit input DACs your preferred suggestion was putting a 100 Mbit / 1Gbit router between the Extreme and the DAC to keep the Extreme working at 1Gbit?

Yes exactly!

 

[Kingsrule]

It is already a few pages back in this thread....here it is again. You CANNOT see the optical send/receive connectors in the pic. They are located in one of the slots between the power input (far right) and the usb/network connections.
View attachment 53370

Thanks. Not the point. I don't need to be told where the pictures are....I'm thinking microstrip doesn't understand the dual ethernet connections. And as a dealer u would think u would trundle to your demo, take an appropriate picture and show him........

 

[microstrip]

Thanks. Not the point. I don't need to be told where the pictures are....I'm thinking microstrip doesn't understand the dual ethernet connections. And as a dealer u would think u would trundle to your demo, take an appropriate picture and show him........

It seems I understand the the dual ethernet connections - my home built windows server uses a JCAT fento card. I was interested in a very particular aspect of the dual ethernet of the Extreme and Emile precisely answered my point.

We have detailed complete pictures of the back of the Extreme in the first pages of the thread.

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks. Not the point. I don't need to be told where the pictures are....I'm thinking microstrip doesn't understand the dual ethernet connections. And as a dealer u would think u would trundle to your demo, take an appropriate picture and show him........

Excuse me. Have a nice day!

 

[Koegz]

 

[microstrip]

View attachment 53375

I would not use such configuration with a high quality dual ethernet server - it seems to me that sending the DAC data through the router will "contaminate" it.

 

[Dimfer]

I would not use such configuration with a high quality dual ethernet server - it seems to me that sending the DAC data through the router will "contaminate" it.

what’s the best configuration?

 

[microstrip]

what’s the best configuration?

I connect the DAC directly to the RJ45 server connector of the JCAT femto and use the other RJ45 of the JCAT femto to connect to a Netgear SG108 router. The NAS is connected to the router and the internet is also connected to the router using an optical link.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I would not use such configuration with a high quality dual ethernet server - it seems to me that sending the DAC data through the router will "contaminate" it.

It's possible this recommendation is because of the MSB Renderer interface being 100Mbit, I would go that way as well in this case. If it was 1Gb, I'd agree. However I would suggest neither option if the Extreme, or another high quality server, was involved. As maximum performance would be limited to what the renderer is capable of, whatever you want to call it, it's still a mini server, granted likely better executed then regular servers, but not up to the level of some of the purposely build high end servers.

 

[microstrip]

It's possible this recommendation is because of the MSB Renderer interface being 100Mbit, I would go that way as well in this case. If it was 1Gb, I'd agree. However I would suggest neither option if the Extreme, or another high quality server, was involved. As maximum performance would be limited to what the renderer is capable of, whatever you want to call it, it's still a mini server, granted likely better executed then regular servers, but not up to the level of some of the purposely build high end servers.

But you would approve my sketch in https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-579304 changing the labels "Roon server" to Extreme and "DAC" to "DCS Vivaldi Upsampler"? What would you change in this configuration ?

 

[Taiko Audio]

But you would approve my sketch in https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-579304 changing the labels "Roon server" to Extreme and "DAC" to "DCS Vivaldi Upsampler"? What would you change in this configuration ?

Yes I approve but I would suggest to at least compare to using USB between Extreme and DCS. If it was an Extreme I would also change the router to one with a SFP port or add a FMC and run fiber between router and Extreme.

As the GS108 is very cheap, an interesting experiment is adding an additional GS108 like this:

-Optical transceiver connects to GS108_1
-Nas connects to GS108_1
-GS108_1 connects to GS108_2
-GS108_2 connects to server

I suspect you may find the result to be intriguing.

You could subsequently expand the experiment to using faster switches.

 

[microstrip]

Yes I approve but I would suggest to at least compare to using USB between Extreme and DCS. (...)

The Vivaldi upsampler needs a specific DCS USB Class 2 Driver 2016, to be loaded in the server, uninstalling existing ASIO drivers first. Is this possible with the Extreme?

 

[Taiko Audio]

The Vivaldi upsampler needs a specific DCS USB Class 2 Driver 2016, to be loaded in the server, uninstalling existing ASIO drivers first. Is this possible with the Extreme?

We have clients using our servers with DCS. What that likely refers to is that multiple revision levels of XMOS drivers don't play well together, and they don't uninstall completely either. No big deal for us though.

 

[Samsoum]

Yes I approve but I would suggest to at least compare to using USB between Extreme and DCS. If it was an Extreme I would also change the router to one with a SFP port or add a FMC and run fiber between router and Extreme.

As the GS108 is very cheap, an interesting experiment is adding an additional GS108 like this:

-Optical transceiver connects to GS108_1
-Nas connects to GS108_1
-GS108_1 connects to GS108_2
-GS108_2 connects to server

I suspect you may find the result to be intriguing.

You could subsequently expand the experiment to using faster switches.

Hi,how to connect fiber from gs108 to server since gs108 doesnt output fiber???

 

[Taiko Audio]

I would also change the router to one with a SFP port or add a FMC and run fiber between router and Extreme.

Note the bold text. Router here being the GS108 which is actually a switch of course. So the suggestion is to replace it with a switch with a fiber port. OR leave it in place and add a FMC (Fiber Media Converter) which can be used to convert copper to fiber.

 

[Esotar]

I'm testing SGM Extreme for more sound quality.

I tried to use many tweak accessories and ideas, but I can't find the way to increase Extreme's quality.

Extreme, DAIZA, and Setchi combination is the best.

Other tweak products were not helpful.

Except DAIZA and Setchi, if you find the products to increase SGM Extreme quality, please tell me about them.

Taiko Audio products are very awesome, but I want to use other tweak products for increasing Extreme quality.

My test result is showed SGM Extreme is perfect machine.