Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
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this is exactly what i heard, about 3 years ago, when i had "magic" in my system for a few months (which i sadly and foolishly lost by changing things, back in the days when we didn't understand why everything matters in digital). i thought of it then as "slowing down time", i could hear more in each note, the interplay between players, and subjectively thinking that time was stretched to allow me to hear all of that.
one of the main reasons i purchased my extreme, sight and sound unseen/unheard, was that the descriptions here were so consonant with and evocative of exactly what i was searching for in SQ.
i still have not heard it............arrived yesterday, music being copied now, TAS/beta scheduled for tomorrow
i'm looking forward to "magic on steroids"
Interesting
Does TAS sound even better when Roon is NOT installed on the Extreme?
Thanks
Matt
as the odd duck who detests the roon interface and would never use it under any circumstances, i am very interested in how this plays out
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I've been using Adaptive 1 mostly and 512. I tried 256 but it was garbled. Maybe the Aqua DAC doesn't work with 256?
why is that? if a CH dac always up-samples files to 705.6kHz for dsd & 768kHz for PCM (published specs) can it do 'bit-perfect'? seems like HQP is made for it.
Hi Bob, My room is large, 15x45'. The Speakers, Boenicke W13's, very slightly toed, 10' from the front wall and I listen in an office chair with wheels, at different depths, depending on whether I want a more near field immersion at 8' or as far back as 12' for a more reflective acoustic. Both depths, and in between, are really nice -- just different flavors.
My guesstimates as to why I'm not in the gobsmacked mob?
1.-- Reverse Expectation Bias (REB)-- just kidding! But sometimes I wonder...
2.-- Maybe network noise is already pretty minimal here, so the noise effect delta between Roon and TAS would also be less? As far as the effects of noise, I've been wondering if the texture I hear with Roon could be a noise artifact? But I was under the impression that noise usually manifests itself as a smearing of the sound. I think I'm hearing as clearly into the recording with Roon as with TAS.
3.-- Interaction of player software with Aqua DAC/ Boenicke speakers. I believe both Aqua and Boenicke are already voiced more towards warm/mellifluous side of the audio spectrum. Are the tunings in TAS (independent of noise mitigation) also tilting toward that direction? My instincts tell me if I were still using the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's, the TAS tonality would be awesome.
(commercial break: to anyone interested, the Mezzo's are for sale. pm me)
4. Don't have usb driver for Aqua DAC ??
I'll be listening more this weekend. And to be sure, music is sounding great (both in Roon and TAS), so no complaints -- but would no doubt like to get as much of an improvement as others are reporting!
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The CH DAC can handle the higher resolutions and sample rates, but it handles every sample rate very well.
The advantage of doing realtime upsampling will have limited upside on the CH, but with the downside of a lot more CPU activity and inescapable noise that comes with it.
This why I am pretty confident that one is better off to deliver the native format without interpolation / clever algorithms and let the CH do its DAC magic without pre DSP
so what you are saying is that CHP does it's own version of the 'HQP' thing already, so 'double-washing' the file makes it worse.
whereas apparently the Chord David has a different result with that same situation, and for whatever number of reasons benefits from HQP.
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CH uses some very sophisticated data signal manipulations specifically geared to the PCM 1704 chips it uses, so yes double washing not recommended.
Similarly we would not recommend that the MSB´s be fed anything other than native format.
3 years ago we were big fans of double and even triple washing Lol
Hi Wil,
It's the 45 ft room that to me, which on one hand is glorious, but on the other hand, sometimes subtle details, which is what I am referring to and a 3D holographic soundstage, for me anyway, as I have worked with large spaces, is a different type of experience. Not that one is better than the other, certainly not. Just different, and possibly making the TAS attributes that I am hearing and I think a lot of others as well, possibly more noticeable. Maybe, maybe not, who knows, just guessing.
I always get a BIG SOUND, with the right speakers in a large space, a more intimate sound, in a smaller space. If I was listening in a large space the incisiveness and subtleties which I am referring to with TAS I believe would be less noticeable.
There really is no way of knowing, heck I can change one power cord and tilt the sound of the system one way.
Plus we are listening to completely different DACs and systems. Not that it should matter as I've been hearing from "the boys" but I have a fairly complex network in front of the Extreme (Waversa W-Router, Two JCAT switches with two JCAT LPS for the Switches and router, with $10K worth of JCAT Gold signature cables connecting all of the network pieces) Along with a dedicated Fios fibre line just for this system.
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For this we are "extreme"-ly grateful!
Every DAC, especially at the high-end, has a very specific architecture, so achieving the best SQ comes down to optimizing the stream that the Extreme sends to it. This is one of the great strengths of TAS, as Emile & co. have sweated the details of determining exactly the right parameters required — buffer size, packet size, bit depth, etc — for each DAC their customers use.
With the DAVE in particular, and recent Chord DACs in general, enough is known about the internal architecture pipeline, thanks to Rob Watts' generous sharing of knowledge on other forums and seminars, to understand that the entire first stage of the pipeline (called WTA1) can be bypassed by supplying a 16FS sample rate (705.6/768) at the input. This is exactly what the external upsampler, the M-Scaler, does. Alternately, one can use a real-time software upsampler like HQPlayer to achieve almost, but not quite, the same SQ.
As @romaz alluded to in his review of the TAS Alpha (see below), some of us are playing with an alternate method of pre-upsampling to 32/16FS, and this is where we are hearing the best results, especially with the DAVE. PM me or @romaz for questions.
These pre-upsampled 32/705.6 or 32/768 files just need to be played bit-perfectly, and this is where we discovered that the combo of HQP and NAA (tuned by Emile with appropriate CPU and storage affinity) has outstanding SQ even when HQP is being used just as a player — i.e. without any of its filtering and noise shaping options (both set to None).
However, this again puts us in a Roon-like situation, where we are dependent on a 3rd party tool and a developer who doesn't share our priorities with regard to sound quality. For example, the recent HQP 4.90 release delivered a nice SQ boost, which then degraded again due to functional fixes in 4.92. Sound familiar to the Roon saga?!
This is where we DAVE alpha participants are actively helping Emile and team with feedback, as our goal is to get TAS+XD to outperform the HQP/NAA solution. This will put control of the software in their hands, and we trust them to address our SQ and functional needs far better than any 3rd party.
We are getting close, and I have full confidence in the team to get us there!
Interesting
Does TAS sound even better when Roon is NOT installed on the Extreme?
Thanks
Matt
rather than mess with removing Roon, why not just remove it from the list of programs at startup, so it will never be active after a power up but will still be there if someone wants it?
I assume complete removing or simply not installing sounds better
I would not like to have an Extreme contaminated with Roon.
Matt
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I agree with Edward
Extreme with TAS is much less sensitive to the network
but top audio swiches still make a significant difference that is must to have once heard .
I do understand Bob who invested 10s of thausends to his network swiches and power supplys.
I got also addictive with many moded Buffalo swiches with pinkfaun ultra clocks.
It is never ending story with improving all pieces in the chain
but with TAS on extreme I was able to get to the levels I never expected to be possible.
Thanks to Taiko Team we can get there .
Extreme with TAS is much less sensitive to the network
but top audio swiches still make a significant difference that is must to have once heard .
I do understand Bob who invested 10s of thausends to his network swiches and power supplys.
I got also addictive with many moded Buffalo swiches with pinkfaun ultra clocks.
It is never ending story with improving all pieces in the chain
but with TAS on extreme I was able to get to the levels I never expected to be possible.
Thanks to Taiko Team we can get there .
If Roon is not "on", as when switching to TAS, how is it affecting the Extreme?I assume complete removing or simply not installing sounds better
I would not like to have an Extreme contaminated with Roon.
Matt
