Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[steve williams]

Happy New Year everybody!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our customers and contributors for your support over the past 3 years of the Extreme's existence. It has been an absolute pleasure dealing with all of you and your continued support have led us on a wondrous journey of discovery which has already resulted in various advances to improve the performance of our products. In this period, as most of you know, Taiko Audio has grown from a 4-man part-time operation on 300m2 of shared rented space to a 7-man full-time team operating from a 2000m2 dedicated facility. What you don't know, and of which I feel the time has now come to share, is that we have been working on no less then 17 projects for some time now of which between 9 and 12 are nearing completion and are going to be released in 2022. 3 of these you are aware of, being XDMS, a PCIe network card upgrade and accompanying switch. The others I cannot disclose at this time as some of these are currently non existing technologies for which we have received government appointed innovation grants. To indicate the scale of this R&D effort, there are now 18 engineers in various disciplines of 7 different companies working on parts of these projects alongside our own crew. None of this would have been possible without you. For me personally this is a dream come through, for which you have my eternal gratitude!

Happy New Year Emile

none of us could have been a part of this journey without you, your team and all of your ambitions. Kudos to you as we all await the goodies that are coming in 2022

 

[cmarin]

Happy New Year everybody!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our customers and contributors for your support over the past 3 years of the Extreme's existence. It has been an absolute pleasure dealing with all of you and your continued support have led us on a wondrous journey of discovery which has already resulted in various advances to improve the performance of our products. In this period, as most of you know, Taiko Audio has grown from a 4-man part-time operation on 300m2 of shared rented space to a 7-man full-time team operating from a 2000m2 dedicated facility. What you don't know, and of which I feel the time has now come to share, is that we have been working on no less then 17 projects for some time now of which between 9 and 12 are nearing completion and are going to be released in 2022. 3 of these you are aware of, being XDMS, a PCIe network card upgrade and accompanying switch. The others I cannot disclose at this time as some of these are currently non existing technologies for which we have received government appointed innovation grants. To indicate the scale of this R&D effort, there are now 18 engineers in various disciplines of 7 different companies working on parts of these projects alongside our own crew. None of this would have been possible without you. For me personally this is a dream come through, for which you have my eternal gratitude!

Emile,

Every interaction with you and the Taiko team, from a technical, business and personal level, has always been a pleasure. I’m sure that a majority of the Exteme owners feel that it is us who should thank YOU, not the other way around! Best wishes for continued success to the Taiko team.

 

[microstrip]

Hi dminches, this was several years ago when I was first building the library in my then new Innuos Zenith MkII SE. I had some rips I‘d prepared for the car and for a holiday stored on a Windows PC drive and a USB stick and I was wondering how they would sound vs the rips of the CDs done by the power and vibration optimized Teac drive and SW on the Innuos. The Innuos won by a margin, so that’s what I loaded. Took more time but ripping CDs on the Innuos is pretty quick and very easy, so no sweat. The other dBpoweramp rips are still on the PC drive but the PC itself is long retired in favour of an Apple platform and I never bothered to copy the music, given that I had duplicates with better SQ plus back-ups.

This diversity of methods is the reason why I asked for a binary file compare. Some years ago I considered and borrowed from a dealer an Innuos Statement and found that their ripper did not have the ability to check automatically the exactitude of the rip using AccurateRip or similar software.

Although the Inuous Statement server sounded very good, at that time this aspect and several others related to server software made me go the DIY jCat based way.

 

[microstrip]

Hi Microstrip,

We have not compared Flac files generated by different by different code implementations and compression settings, but we are 100 percent certain that the decompressed files have the identical bit values for the audio data.

The thing about audio data transfer, is the wrapping paper matters. An audibly clear example of this is the SQ Delta of native DSD and DoP. DoP uses twice the number of bits to deliver exactly the same data and you can hear it

Thanks Emile. I am not addressing decompression - known to be exact since long. I am just referring to the ripping process it self. And would prefer to keep the discussion in the PCM 16/41 waters, something we know pretty well.

BTW, although happily I found that the Extreme server/dCS Vivaldi DAC seems immune to 16/41 file format many people using other servers do not feel the same.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks Emile. I am not addressing decompression - known to be exact since long. I am just referring to the ripping process it self. And would prefer to keep the discussion in the PCM 16/41 waters, something we know pretty well.

BTW, although happily I found that the Extreme server/dCS Vivaldi DAC seems immune to 16/41 file format many people using other servers do not feel the same.

Hi @microstrip ,

Assuming we agree that these differences exist, but cannot be explained from a "bit is bit" perspective, there is another factor which Edward referred to in his reply as "wrapping paper". We are indeed addressing these "wrapping paper" differences in TAS and the upcoming XDMS, and are going to take this further in updates which are currently under development. As we are now heavily invested in this I would like to keep the exact mechanics to ourselves, at least till our full solution has been released at which point we may release a whitepaper digging into this. I hope you understand. I assure you I'm biting my lips here as I would eagerly share more.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm going to listen to a Taiko pretty soon at AudioUltra in Seattle. I think my server is getting a little long in the tooth. Its not ready to refire yet. But 24x7 running year over year is a lot on a computer.

 

[Alex G]

Happy New Year everybody!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our customers and contributors for your support over the past 3 years of the Extreme's existence. It has been an absolute pleasure dealing with all of you and your continued support have led us on a wondrous journey of discovery which has already resulted in various advances to improve the performance of our products. In this period, as most of you know, Taiko Audio has grown from a 4-man part-time operation on 300m2 of shared rented space to a 7-man full-time team operating from a 2000m2 dedicated facility. What you don't know, and of which I feel the time has now come to share, is that we have been working on no less then 17 projects for some time now of which between 9 and 12 are nearing completion and are going to be released in 2022. 3 of these you are aware of, being XDMS, a PCIe network card upgrade and accompanying switch. The others I cannot disclose at this time as some of these are currently non existing technologies for which we have received government appointed innovation grants. To indicate the scale of this R&D effort, there are now 18 engineers in various disciplines of 7 different companies working on parts of these projects alongside our own crew. None of this would have been possible without you. For me personally this is a dream come through, for which you have my eternal gratitude!

Thanks Emile and the entire Taiko team! Your dedication, curiosity and passion is remarkable. Happy New Year! Cannot wait for 2022 and all that’s coming.

 

[Lojay]

Hi @Lojay ,

Roon is capable of serving multiple networked endpoints. If the option for additional infrastructure is there you can also use a monoprice slimrun optical USB extender to run USB to a different room.

Many thanks Emile!

The Monoprice option is interesting. I wonder if the Extreme can play music simultaneously on the USB output on the motherboard and on the TAS USB card without a sonic penalty? Otherwise Roon server seems to be the safer option.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Many thanks Emile!

The Monoprice option is interesting. I wonder if the Extreme can play music simultaneously on the USB output on the motherboard and on the TAS USB card without a sonic penalty? Otherwise Roon server seems to be the safer option.

Playing to 2 devices simultaneously would impact sound quality for sure.

 

[Muni]

Happy New Year everybody!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our customers and contributors for your support over the past 3 years of the Extreme's existence. It has been an absolute pleasure dealing with all of you and your continued support have led us on a wondrous journey of discovery which has already resulted in various advances to improve the performance of our products. In this period, as most of you know, Taiko Audio has grown from a 4-man part-time operation on 300m2 of shared rented space to a 7-man full-time team operating from a 2000m2 dedicated facility. What you don't know, and of which I feel the time has now come to share, is that we have been working on no less then 17 projects for some time now of which between 9 and 12 are nearing completion and are going to be released in 2022. 3 of these you are aware of, being XDMS, a PCIe network card upgrade and accompanying switch. The others I cannot disclose at this time as some of these are currently non existing technologies for which we have received government appointed innovation grants. To indicate the scale of this R&D effort, there are now 18 engineers in various disciplines of 7 different companies working on parts of these projects alongside our own crew. None of this would have been possible without you. For me personally this is a dream come through, for which you have my eternal gratitude!

Hi Emile - I don't know if you need a happy new year since you always look happy - but just in case - happy new year - and thank you for creating the terrific sound I enjoy in the meantime even with TAS - and I am not sure at the moment if I will switch to XDMS since its so good already - joking...of yourse will I take the Taiko route...
Best Regards!!!!

I have a question about the Daiza...
on the Quadraspire reference rack - see post on page 430 at the bottom of the page - I have a subbase slate base underneath the DAC and the Daiza on top which gave an incredible push soundwise on all levels after adding the Daiza - by the way thank you for delivering it right before Christmas...
my question:
I have just ordered a new Daiza board - is the slate base underneath the Daiza - DAC an ideal underground for the Daiza or is it better to put the Daiza directly on the rack without the slate base...do i get a better tonality that way or am I just fine the way it is....

and...I am considering to get another one for the amp on top which also sits on a slatebase from subbase...for this I would then have to order one or two more Daizas depending on your recommendation...otherwise i would just add the one Daiza I just ordered to the amp on top...
thank you, Emile

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Emile - I don't know if you need a happy new year since you always look happy - but just in case - happy new year - and thank you for creating the terrific sound I enjoy in the meantime even with TAS - and I am not sure at the moment if I will switch to XDMS since its so good already - joking...of yourse will I take the Taiko route...
Best Regards!!!!

I have a question about the Daiza...
on the Quadraspire reference rack - see post on page 430 at the bottom of the page - I have a subbase slate base underneath the DAC and the Daiza on top which gave an incredible push soundwise on all levels after adding the Daiza - by the way thank you for delivering it right before Christmas...
my question:
I have just ordered a new Daiza board - is the slate base underneath the Daiza - DAC an ideal underground for the Daiza or is it better to put the Daiza directly on the rack without the slate base...do i get a better tonality that way or am I just fine the way it is....

and...I am considering to get another one for the amp on top which also sits on a slatebase from subbase...for this I would then have to order one or two more Daizas depending on your recommendation...otherwise i would just add the one Daiza I just ordered to the amp on top...
thank you, Emile

Happy New Year Muni,

Hard to say if the slate plate improves things, I’m afraid the only way to find out is to try. As an example, a very commonly used platform is the Symposium Ultra, customers are split almost 50/50 between a preference for leaving the Symposium in place with the Daiza on top or using the Daiza solo.

 

[Muni]

Happy New Year Muni,

Hard to say if the slate plate improves things, I’m afraid the only way to find out is to try. As an example, a very commonly used platform is the Symposium Ultra, customers are split almost 50/50 between a preference for leaving the Symposium in place with the Daiza on top or using the Daiza solo.

thank you, Emile I will do that....find out for mysself...

 

[Zeotrope]

The Taiko is a very intriguing product for me. I have read the various posts and it seems to that literally every customer is very happy with their purchase.

But, I am also wary. The machine is a high end, bespoke PC any way you shake it. That also means that it is a rapidly evolving product. With, say an amplifier or speakers, it is probable that they will remain relevant for years. Look at some of the top amplifiers that were designed 10 years ago. But, with the Taiko, it will inevitably be a dated component in 18 months. That is not to say it maybe won't still sound great. But, it will be a technologically outdated component in that time. And, that is part of my conundrum. Am I okay buying a $30,000 component knowing that it has such a short shelf life? This one is challenging. As an enthusiast, I maybe am okay.

I can see why you would think that, but I disagree:
1) there will likely be no need to upgrade the Taiko Extreme for a long time. It can already play DSD1024 files and process conversion on the fly without straining, so unless/until resolution improves dramatically, why would there be a need to upgrade?
2) I’m sure Emile will provide an upgrade path in the future - it will likely be as simple as swapping the input/output cards. I don’t see a need to ever upgrade the power supply - that’s not digital or a PC anyway.

 

[Zeotrope]

View attachment 87153

a photo sent to us by one of our dealers in Asia a few weeks ago

I like that diffuser panel!

 

[MusicFellow]

thank you, Emile I will do that....find out for mysself...

Hi Emile - I don't know if you need a happy new year since you always look happy - but just in case - happy new year - and thank you for creating the terrific sound I enjoy in the meantime even with TAS - and I am not sure at the moment if I will switch to XDMS since its so good already - joking...of yourse will I take the Taiko route...
Best Regards!!!!

I have a question about the Daiza...
on the Quadraspire reference rack - see post on page 430 at the bottom of the page - I have a subbase slate base underneath the DAC and the Daiza on top which gave an incredible push soundwise on all levels after adding the Daiza - by the way thank you for delivering it right before Christmas...
my question:
I have just ordered a new Daiza board - is the slate base underneath the Daiza - DAC an ideal underground for the Daiza or is it better to put the Daiza directly on the rack without the slate base...do i get a better tonality that way or am I just fine the way it is....

and...I am considering to get another one for the amp on top which also sits on a slatebase from subbase...for this I would then have to order one or two more Daizas depending on your recommendation...otherwise i would just add the one Daiza I just ordered to the amp on top...
thank you, Emile

Hi Muni,

I see you are using the Daiza platform under both your Extreme and DAC and plan to do so for your amps as well - very similar to what I plan for my system. I also use a Daiza under my Extreme and found the improvement quite substantial to before where the Extreme was just on the lowest shelf of my Finite Elemente Signature Pagode. My amps also rest on slate plates like your’s and I use Isoacoustics Oreas in between.

For the Extreme + Daiza I use Finite Elemente Cerabase Slim Footers both between the Extreme and Daiza (4) and between the Daiza and rack (3 instead of the regular Daiza feet which I feared might leave dents in the wood surface). I plan to do the same combination under my DAC and amps.

I saw you also use the CMS footers. Did you combine them with the Daiza and if so what‘s your experience? An option would be for me to use the Finite Cerabase Slim just for underneath the Daizas and the CMS on top between Daiza and components. However this would be another 10k plus investment and it would indeed be interesting to hear if anybody has experience with Daiza plus CMS 1.5.

If not I‘d just start with the Daizas and do experiments myself later-on.

Many thanks and of course also from my side: A vibrant and pleasant New Year to Emile, Edward and the whole Taiko Team as well as the Great Taiko community out there!

Sebastian

 

[cat6man]

The good news is that the processing algorithms used in TAS and XDMS are able to very significantly reduce rip quality differences and streaming file playback quality. This was a breakthrough we achieved in the latter part of 2020

Strange things can happen in software, an early pioneer in this field has been the author of Bughead Emperor. The things that are coded into TAS and XDMS are grounded in the ways PC's electrically function.

Extreme Owners can confidently rip on a decent PC or MAC using dBPoweramp or EAC and then get consistently great sonic results when playing back on the Extreme using TAS or XDMS

does anyone have a link to any material that explains what insights bughead emperor helped pioneer?
i don't want to hijack the thread, so please reply via messaging.

 

[EuroDriver]

does anyone have a link to any material that explains what insights bughead emperor helped pioneer?
i don't want to hijack the thread, so please reply via messaging.

PM'd you the link on Audiophile Style

 

[oldmustang]

I'm going to listen to a Taiko pretty soon at AudioUltra in Seattle. I think my server is getting a little long in the tooth. Its not ready to refire yet. But 24x7 running year over year is a lot on a computer.

I was recently at Ed's and if you haven't been there before you are in for a treat. Both the large and the small systems sound superb. The Taiko was in the large room with the Magico M6, full MSB stack, big MSB amp and it sounded amazing.

Steve Z

 

[DasguteOhr]

Perhaps you are right, but I had hope that if we got some answers from experts and experienced people more people would be interested in this thread and we would get some new people in these challenging subjects.

In the past we had great and enlightening technical debates on similar subjects in WBF, for example on why a CD copy could sound better than the original - a philosophical heresy!

with EAC (exact audio copy) in paranoid mode and dc offset, the copy is definitely better.

 

[Muni]

Hi Muni,

I see you are using the Daiza platform under both your Extreme and DAC and plan to do so for your amps as well - very similar to what I plan for my system. I also use a Daiza under my Extreme and found the improvement quite substantial to before where the Extreme was just on the lowest shelf of my Finite Elemente Signature Pagode. My amps also rest on slate plates like your’s and I use Isoacoustics Oreas in between.

For the Extreme + Daiza I use Finite Elemente Cerabase Slim Footers both between the Extreme and Daiza (4) and between the Daiza and rack (3 instead of the regular Daiza feet which I feared might leave dents in the wood surface). I plan to do the same combination under my DAC and amps.

I saw you also use the CMS footers. Did you combine them with the Daiza and if so what‘s your experience? An option would be for me to use the Finite Cerabase Slim just for underneath the Daizas and the CMS on top between Daiza and components. However this would be another 10k plus investment and it would indeed be interesting to hear if anybody has experience with Daiza plus CMS 1.5.

If not I‘d just start with the Daizas and do experiments myself later-on.

Many thanks and of course also from my side: A vibrant and pleasant New Year to Emile, Edward and the whole Taiko Team as well as the Great Taiko community out there!

Sebastian

Hi MusicFellow:

great to hear that you are on a similar track!

I am using the CMS 2 footers on top of both of the Daizas - got my 2nd recently - and i notice a big improvement of dynamics and musical flow and the sound in the room pouring all over me...the CMS 1,5 i use only underneath the Extreme - for the rest I use the 1.0 version.

Daiza and CMS 2 are a win win situation - I will do the same underneath the Amp - look forward to the 3rd Daiza....

I am not inclined to use other footers underneath the Daizas yet - may be later....the whole game of changing too often will mean that the footers will undertake another several days journey of breaking in...I still have a set of 4 Harmonix TU333EX - may be I will try these underneath the Daiza on top of my rack underneath the Amp when the Daiza has arrived...I will let you know!

Good luck - please share your findings once you get the Daizas and footers as well.

Muni