Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

spiritofmusic

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One TotalDac for the lounge
One for the bedroom LOL
 

Taiko Audio

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A batch of Extremes has just arrived at Volent in Hong Kong:

2caab9ff-f373-4dc5-8b51-9fe402f3dc64.JPG
 

nonesup

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Wow!!!!!
 
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spiritofmusic

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Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Extremes are like buses. You wait an hour for one, and then six turn up at once...
yes; but you don't park a bus in your own garage, even if you live in a church.o_O
 
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CKKeung

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Last edited:
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CKKeung

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BTW I mentioned that Extreme is modular and can be tailor-made to suit individual user's own dac/system and is rather future-proof.
Here are some examples of what the HK buyers have ordered :

Other than the usual SFP socket for optical ethernet & usb ouputs, this Extreme got a dual-AES spdif output too, for the buyer's dCS dac :
IMG-20190710-WA0043~2.jpg

This Extreme got a single AES digital ouput, and two bnc clock sockets. Are the latter inputs or outputs? I have to ask Ben Lau of Volent HK later today.
IMG-20190710-WA0050~2.jpg
 
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This Extreme got a single AES digital ouput, and two bnc clock sockets. Are the latter inputs or outputs? I have to ask Ben Lau of Volent HK later today.
The two bnc clock sockets are word clock in/out. These are not 10MHz "master clock" compatible, they run at the sampling rate times a multiplier. You can for example sync with a Mutec MC-3. It is more commonly used in the studio recording scene then in High end.
 

CKKeung

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The two bnc clock sockets are word clock in/out. These are not 10MHz "master clock" compatible, they run at the sampling rate times a multiplier. You can for example sync with a Mutec MC-3. It is more commonly used in the studio recording scene then in High end.
Hello Emile,
How will this client of yours use these two clock input/output?
 
Feb 10, 2017
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Hello Emile,
How will this client of yours use these two clock input/output?
I don't expect he will. But it does give you some tuning options should you want to play around with that. Vincent could probably fit an option to sync to his reclocker for example. Or it's possible it already can. I will drop him an e-mail to ask. I'm sorry I cannot tell you if there are sonic benefits to be expected from that.
 
May 30, 2010
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The two bnc clock sockets are word clock in/out. These are not 10MHz "master clock" compatible, they run at the sampling rate times a multiplier. You can for example sync with a Mutec MC-3. It is more commonly used in the studio recording scene then in High end.
So they could work with DCS Vivaldi. However, the Vivaldi system has two clock lines - one 44.1 and selectable multiples, the other is 48 and selectable multiples, the units select automatically the proper line. But probably the Extreme could be driven by the Vivaldi DAC output clock.
 
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Aug 10, 2015
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The two bnc clock sockets are word clock in/out. These are not 10MHz "master clock" compatible, they run at the sampling rate times a multiplier. You can for example sync with a Mutec MC-3. It is more commonly used in the studio recording scene then in High end.

Does the clock card use input timing from the Extreme or is the card acting just as a frequency multiplier to feed and sync other equipment? So this would not be "audiophile" quality, but more in studio applications where difference in timing could cause "delays" or speed difference across different equipment? Meaning just like a turntable where a small speed fluctuation causes slowing or speeding up of the music.


Unless i misunderstood, the Extreme has done away with all clock oscillators internally?
 
Mar 4, 2019
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Vincent could probably fit an option to sync to his reclocker for example.
I asked for this to run my TotalDAC 24.
Vincent was not willing to do so.
I think he perfected the clocks he is using the way they cannot be improved .
Maybe that will change but so far no way to get external clocking .
I think it is just like your Extereme that works WORST with additional super clock.
 

Taiko Audio

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Does the clock card use input timing from the Extreme or is the card acting just as a frequency multiplier to feed and sync other equipment? So this would not be "audiophile" quality, but more in studio applications where difference in timing could cause "delays" or speed difference across different equipment? Meaning just like a turntable where a small speed fluctuation causes slowing or speeding up of the music.
It is primarily intended for studio applications yes, however external clocking will affect your resulting sound. It does not use input timing of the Extreme, it has its own oscillators.

There is a bit more to it as it can be configured to have both inputs and outputs, you could for example connect a cd or any other digital transport to it, apply any desired type of processing, like upsampling, or room correction, and output to a DAC. I don't view it as a particularly interesting option, but it can do it nonetheless.

Unless i misunderstood, the Extreme has done away with all clock oscillators internally?
They are still there, the system would not function without, we just figured out exactly why replacing them improves the sound and found a better way with significantly better results.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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I asked for this to run my TotalDAC 24.
Vincent was not willing to do so.
I think he perfected the clocks he is using the way they cannot be improved .
Maybe that will change but so far no way to get external clocking .
I think it is just like your Extereme that works WORST with additional super clock.
Yes I asked him too. Same reply. Ultimately its all about how the total package performs.
 
Mar 4, 2019
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This Extreme got a single AES digital ouput,
Emile
Could you please let us know what is the best option card you use for the AES or dual AES exits .
It looks from outside picture it is not pci express card !
What are you using there ?
Is it clocked card ?

Also in your opinion using it with Totaldac 12 is it better via AES or USB ?
What are differences?
 
Last edited:
Aug 10, 2015
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1.As to add on, does the dual AES card also work as a single AES via either of the 2 AES outputs?

2.For the Single AES, a BNC/RCA can be easily implemented and added from the output circuit ?
 
Feb 10, 2017
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There are really only 2 options:
-Lynx AES16e
-RME HDSPe AES

We use the RME with the Extreme. We modify it to be able to use high end AES/EBU cables. We can also fit transformers to convert AES/EBU to SPDIF. The RME is more transparent / revealing. The Lynx is a bit more veiled which can be good for electrically noisy servers. That is why you may find comments online about the Lynx sounding "warmer" or "fuller" when used in digital audio workstations.

As for USB versus AES/EBU:

There is a functional difference, single channel AES/EBU is limited to 24/192 sample rates. If the DAC supports it you can split channels into dual or quad wire AES/EBU. DCS supports this, it allows you to play 24/384 files by splitting it into 2 x 24/192. You will obviously run into issues with DSD playback.

For multichannel playback up to 8 AES/EBU channels are supported which enables you to do 7.1 playback. We cannot fit 8 AES/EBU connectors on the chassis, so you would then need to use a "break out cable". That is a db25 to 8x AES/EBU converter cable.

USB is only limited in sample rate and amount of channels by what the DAC USB receiver supports.

Sound quality between the two is generally competitive. Which one performs better depends on the implementation of the DAC interface, some DACs have superior AES/EBU interfaces, others have superior USB interfaces, and some are just on par. The Totaldac falls into the "on par" category, your preference may come down to your AES/EBU versus USB cable quality.
 
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May 30, 2010
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As for USB versus AES/EBU:

There is a functional difference, single channel AES/EBU is limited to 24/192 sample rates. If the DAC supports it you can split channels into dual or quad wire AES/EBU. DCS supports this, it allows you to play 24/384 files by splitting it into 2 x 24/192. You will obviously run into issues with DSD playback.

For multichannel playback up to 8 AES/EBU channels are supported which enables you to do 7.1 playback. We cannot fit 8 AES/EBU connectors on the chassis, so you would then need to use a "break out cable". That is a db25 to 8x AES/EBU converter cable.

USB is only limited in sample rate and amount of channels by what the DAC USB receiver supports.

Sound quality between the two is generally competitive. Which one performs better depends on the implementation of the DAC interface, some DACs have superior AES/EBU interfaces, others have superior USB interfaces, and some are just on par. The Totaldac falls into the "on par" category, your preference may come down to your AES/EBU versus USB cable quality.
IMHO it is very hard to discuss USB versus AES/EBU. I immediately see an asynchronous versus a synchronous interface. The classical drawback of AES/EBU (clock regeneration) does not exist in professional or top systems that use a master clock, apparently AES/EBU is more predictable and easier to debate, particularly as bandwidth is more limited. Asynchronous processes are apparently much more chaotic. The question is what type of sound people prefer - order or chaos? :eek:
 

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