Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[microstrip]

(...) I have run into a problem with finding "better" items for my system. This is because my system(s) sound so good now with the Extreme that I don't really care about making the sound better it is so good now I am content with the way it is. (...)

Than you should be very happy with this situation. However such findings and happiness depend only on us and will last only how long we want them to last. Stereo is intrinsically an experimental evolutionary system, depending in large margin on our imagination to create an illusion. The fact that you have a long and large experience does not change anything on this fact. The point is that we stop when we want to stop, not when reach the non existing perfection of an unperfected system.

Being an audiophile is an hobby with many faces. One of them involves changes - in gear, room settings or even tweaks, but also a permanent search. When people say that the are "done", what is left?

 

[Rhapsody]

Than you should be very happy with this situation. However such findings and happiness depend only on us and will last only how long we want them to last. Stereo is intrinsically an experimental evolutionary system, depending in large margin on our imagination to create an illusion. The fact that you have a long and large experience does not change anything on this fact. The point is that we stop when we want to stop, not when reach the non existing perfection of an unperfected system.

Being an audiophile is an hobby with many faces. One of them involves changes - in gear, room settings or even tweaks, but also a permanent search. When people say that the are "done", what is left?

What is left is listening and enjoying music on a daily basis....nothing less and nothing more

PS- Don't get me wrong as advancements occur I will be there. I was "really" referring to my latest "digital episode" with the Extreme and the connections to and from. Even with saying I am satisfied as soon as I hear about something that is a significant upgrade to the mentioned chain, again, like the Four Tops said "I'll be there".

With saying that, I also would be totally content listening to music with where I currently am with respect to the digital side of my equation. If another advancement never occured I would be forever content with my system(s) in their current state driven by the Extreme AND especially Streaming. Happy Camper here

 

[CKKeung]

I haven’t tried the Beeswax Ultimate but have evaluated the earlier Beeswax SHD model. It certainly had its merits however I ended up preferring the SR Blue.

Powerhouse Infinity and Brimar (the HK fuse brand) have very diff housesounds.
I listened to both brands.
My personal preference is Brimar.
To me Powerhouse Infinity, even their newest Zero Series is too hifish for my system.

 

[Esotar]

Powerhouse Infinity and Brimar (the HK fuse brand) have very diff housesounds.
I listened to both brands.
My personal preference is Brimar.
To me Powerhouse Infinity, even their newest Zero Series is too hifish for my system.

Can I order Brimar fuse??

I'm Korean.

If you know the site that can do international shipping, please tell me about the site address.

 

[CKKeung]

Can I order Brimar fuse??
I'm Korean.
If you know the site that can do international shipping, please tell me about the site address.

Hello Esotar,
There are two series of Brimar fuses. The Graphene Series is newer and more expensive.




I will send you contacts of its dealers in HK by private message.
I have no assocation with the brand/its dealers.

 

[Kris]

Kris, honestly I am following Emile's footsteps on all of this. I'm hitched to the Taiko wagon and grateful/appreciative that I am. I cherish the relationship.

Please let me know when you are in the concrete jungle again and come by for a visit.

Thank you for the invitation. It would be nice to stop by for an hour or two during my next US trip.

I am trying to get to audition extreme in my system here in Europe before purchesing .
I have very specific and rare system and wanted to avoid mismach in tonal balance.
But once they have a demo I should get it for few days so I can safely place the order
and add myself to the Taiko wagon.
Cant wait for that.

 

[CKKeung]

Thank you for the invitation. It would be nice to stop by for an hour or two during my next US tri
I am trying to get to audition extreme in my system here in Europe before purchesing .
I have very specific and rare system and wanted to avoid mismach in tonal balance.
But once they have a demo I should get it for few days so I can safely place the order
and add myself to the Taiko wagon.
Cant wait for that.

Hello Kris,
You are in France?
Why not pay Emile a visit? He is in Netherlands and has a system of Extreme+Totaldac Twelve mk2+ Audionet flagships.
Useful as a reference for you?

 

[Sablon Audio]

As Emile is massively backordered on Extreme, I suspect it may be quite some time until he has a demo unit available. There is also the cost of two way shipping / insurance of @50kg to consider, so I would concur with CK that a visit to Hengelo would be the best way forward in the first instance.

 

[Taiko Audio]

As Emile is massively backordered on Extreme, I suspect it may be quite some time until he has a demo unit available. There is also the cost of two way shipping / insurance of @50kg to consider, so I would concur with CK that a visit to Hengelo would be the best way forward in the first instance.

Kris, you are welcome to pay us a visit in Hengelo, do feel free to bring your current source to directly compare. We are indeed backordered, and it does not look like it will stop soon due to a steady flow of orders. There is always the option to simply order one, as you can return it with a full refund should it not satisfy you.

Our biggest hurdle is the chassis supply rate, our current CNC suppliers just cannot keep up. The Extreme chassis is very machining intensive with a lot of cut outs, angles and around 6.000 drill holes. We have to reject around 60% of the chassis we receive due to imperfections caused by transportation, uneven bead blasting, anodising etc. We have just contracted a new supplier willing to operate their machines 24/7 in stead of 10/5 more then tripling our supply rate. I am confident this will significantly reduce our lead times.

We did not expect the Extreme to be this popular considering its pricetag, and we did set this slightly too low which we may not be able to maintain indefinitely. But we are delighted people appreciate the product as we put our hearts and souls into designing it. It has been a thrilling ride so far and each and every client has been a pleasure to work with.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Regarding "tweaks".

From my perspective, most of these do not reliably improve performance across the board. They do provide you with a way of "voicing" your system. Generally speaking, these can voice your system to sound overall darker, or brighter. They can alter your soundstage perception, as in more direct or more laidback.

The issue with this is that a tweak considered to be mind blowing by one individual, to his ears, in his system, can be disappointing to another. I have received a lot of feedback on these. Let's take the Beeswax fuse as an example, feedback on that ranges from "incredible / must have" to "where did my music go". Similarly, the SR Blue ranges from "incredible uptick in resolution" to "unnatural thin sound". One prefers the SR black over the SR blue, the other prefers the SR blue over the SR black, etc etc.

Due to this, you will not receive a straight out endorsement from me for most of these. I am not against tweaking, I love tweaking, it can make a significant difference to your system, and sharing experiences with tweaks are all valuable data points to me. So please keep at it.

With all of that said, what I can share from consistent feedback on products used with the Extreme:

1) A good quality USB cable / power cord does make a significant difference, highly recommended to not save on these.

2) Fiber networking consistently improves performance, and it can be implemented "on the cheap" by means of a single FMC, highly recommended, unbeatable price/performance.

3) Of all the USB tweaks out there, only the new Intona USB isolators are consistently liked. With the caveat that it is an expensive tweak, as it requires a second similar quality USB cable as already in use and seems to benefit from being externally powered if the power supply is of sufficient quality. It works, but relatively expensive.

4) Audiophile switches, the upcoming Uptone looks interesting, the double stack Sotm is well liked, you can clock them externally, you can power them with high quality powersupplies. It works, but you can spend a small fortune on it.

I do strongly recommend 1) and 2). I consider 3) and 4) fun to play around with, but do know what you are getting yourself into, only pursue if money is no object.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Emile, are you aware of Paul Pang? He has a QUAD switch. Single and dual switches are so "first half 2019" LOL. I know of someone using the quad switch, first in existence.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, are you aware of Paul Pang? He has a QUAD switch. Single and dual switches are so "first half 2019" LOL. I know of someone using the quad switch, first in existence.

Yes, he's been around a long time, one of the pioneers of component clock and power supply modifications.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Emile, as an envious onlooker to all these lucky Extreme owners, and your success story on demand outstripping supply, I just wanted to ask a Q from the POV of someone who's a reluctant streaming adopter, digital audio 100% being my cdp.

Streamers/servers seem to be the one component in high end audio that is almost immediately out of date the moment it's released.

This certainly doesn't apply to analog which is a mature medium, not that much to amps and spkrs either.

Even w dacs, they maintain their worth or advantage over a longer period than streamers.

So, MSB Select 2, Total Dac 12, Lampi Pac etc, these are not gonna be seriously threatened w being outdone for several years. Indeed the MSB is built for upgradability. MikeL can relax knowing he has the foundation for cutting edge digital for life.

Your Extreme is the extreme leading edge of servers. Yet I'm sure in 6-12 months you could build a unit that will out-extreme the Extreme.

So for those w upgrade nervosa, even at exhalted Extreme performance levels, doesn't spending big contradict itself?

Extreme Mk2 is surely on the cards v soon.

 

[Taiko Audio]

So, MSB Select 2, Total Dac 12, Lampi Pac etc, these are not gonna be seriously threatened w being outdone for several years. Indeed the MSB is built for upgradability. MikeL can relax knowing he has the foundation for cutting edge digital for life.

Your Extreme is the extreme leading edge of servers. Yet I'm sure in 6-12 months you could build a unit that will out-extreme the Extreme.

So for those w upgrade nervosa, even at exhalted Extreme performance levels, doesn't spending big contradict itself?

Extreme Mk2 is surely on the cards v soon.

All the DACs you mentioned are upgradeable to their latest iterations.

So is the Extreme.

We had the SGM2015 in the past, which was upgradeable to its successor, the EVO. If the chassis would be physically large enough to fit what is inside the Extreme, we would have offered an upgrade for it.

The Extreme chassis has been designed with upgradeability in mind. Interface cards can be swapped by anyone who can handle a screwdriver. It can fit, power and cool the largest size commonly used motherboard (EEB or E-ATX), which is significantly larger then you will find in consumer level desktop computers and normally only used in data center servers, heavy workstations, or the silliest of gaming rigs. And it can still be placed in a rack.

Should we want to design a bigger and badder Extreme, it would need to be significantly larger, and even heavier. Think large class A power amplifier sized. Now we did of course experiment with this, but have been met with the laws of diminishing returns.

As stated previously in this thread. We do take SGM2015s and EVOs back, quite a few of their owners have happily upgraded to the Extreme. Should we be so crazy to design something even bigger, making it non upgradable, we will do the same for the Extreme.

There are going to be upgrades for the Extreme, but in the foreseeable future, those will be software upgrades, free, and easy to apply remotely, by us. These can have a larger effect then you think, I would go as far as stating that they can do more then several tweaks mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[microstrip]

Emile, as an envious onlooker to all these lucky Extreme owners, and your success story on demand outstripping supply, I just wanted to ask a Q from the POV of someone who's a reluctant streaming adopter, digital audio 100% being my cdp.

Streamers/servers seem to be the one component in high end audio that is almost immediately out of date the moment it's released.

This certainly doesn't apply to analog which is a mature medium, not that much to amps and spkrs either.

Even w dacs, they maintain their worth or advantage over a longer period than streamers.

So, MSB Select 2, Total Dac 12, Lampi Pac etc, these are not gonna be seriously threatened w being outdone for several years. Indeed the MSB is built for upgradability. MikeL can relax knowing he has the foundation for cutting edge digital for life.

Your Extreme is the extreme leading edge of servers. Yet I'm sure in 6-12 months you could build a unit that will out-extreme the Extreme.

So for those w upgrade nervosa, even at exhalted Extreme performance levels, doesn't spending big contradict itself?

Extreme Mk2 is surely on the cards v soon.

A very interesting post, but I think it is unfair to debate it in this thread, as it would become too centered in the Extreme and Taiko Audio. Can you start a separate thread on it?

 

[Blackmorec]

Emile, as an envious onlooker to all these lucky Extreme owners, and your success story on demand outstripping supply, I just wanted to ask a Q from the POV of someone who's a reluctant streaming adopter, digital audio 100% being my cdp.

Streamers/servers seem to be the one component in high end audio that is almost immediately out of date the moment it's released.

This certainly doesn't apply to analog which is a mature medium, not that much to amps and spkrs either.

Even w dacs, they maintain their worth or advantage over a longer period than streamers.

So, MSB Select 2, Total Dac 12, Lampi Pac etc, these are not gonna be seriously threatened w being outdone for several years. Indeed the MSB is built for upgradability. MikeL can relax knowing he has the foundation for cutting edge digital for life.

Your Extreme is the extreme leading edge of servers. Yet I'm sure in 6-12 months you could build a unit that will out-extreme the Extreme.

So for those w upgrade nervosa, even at exhalted Extreme performance levels, doesn't spending big contradict itself?

Extreme Mk2 is surely on the cards v soon.

Essentially what you’re saying is that by far the most development is going on in the area of streamers and servers, where sound quality has been progressing rapidly thanks to NUCs, improved SSDs, improved processors, better motherboards, improved interface cards, improved RAM, Software etc and some adventurous hi-fi oriented entrepreneurs . So anyone wanting the very best in SQ is going to be living close to the innovative edge where there’s a choice of course.....stay with what you have; alternatively make what you have better by refining its installation or finally keep on innovating. If its the latter you need to chose excellent innovators with a future to hook up with.

 

[CKKeung]

... you need to chose excellent innovators with a future to hook up with.

Very well said!
An excellent innovator - Emile.
With a future - Taiko Audio's future upgrade guarantee.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Essentially what you’re saying is that by far the most development is going on in the area of streamers and servers, where sound quality has been progressing rapidly thanks to NUCs, improved SSDs, improved processors, better motherboards, improved interface cards, improved RAM, Software etc and some adventurous hi-fi oriented entrepreneurs . So anyone wanting the very best in SQ is going to be living close to the innovative edge where there’s a choice of course.....stay with what you have; alternatively make what you have better by refining its installation or finally keep on innovating. If its the latter you need to chose excellent innovators with a future to hook up with.

I'm saying that the changes are faster here than in any other sector of the high end, making obsolescence a real consideration, more critical or relevant the more you pay. This is not a jibe at Emile, indeed the opposite, I have fantastic respect for him and his product over the 3 years I've heard the SGM.

My Q is whether the Extreme can really accomodate those significant changes when they come, because those changes will be happening faster than in any other component.

 

[CKKeung]

My Q is whether the Extreme can really accomodate those significant changes when they come, because those changes will be happening faster than in any other component.

If Emile cannot, who/which brand can?

IMHO the current Extreme is already years ahead of all other CAS servers/streamers in the market, both in terms of IT hardware & software and also the other usual aspects of hifi components such as powersupply and chassis construction.

I have complete confidence in Taiko Audio/Emile!

 

[Kris]

Kris, you are welcome to pay us a visit in Hengelo, do feel free to bring your current source to directly compare. We are indeed backordered, and it does not look like it will stop soon due to a steady flow of orders. There is always the option to simply order one, as you can return it with a full refund should it not satisfy you.

Our biggest hurdle is the chassis supply rate, our current CNC suppliers just cannot keep up. The Extreme chassis is very machining intensive with a lot of cut outs, angles and around 6.000 drill holes. We have to reject around 60% of the chassis we receive due to imperfections caused by transportation, uneven bead blasting, anodising etc. We have just contracted a new supplier willing to operate their machines 24/7 in stead of 10/5 more then tripling our supply rate. I am confident this will significantly reduce our lead times.

We did not expect the Extreme to be this popular considering its pricetag, and we did set this slightly too low which we may not be able to maintain indefinitely. But we are delighted people appreciate the product as we put our hearts and souls into designing it. It has been a thrilling ride so far and each and every client has been a pleasure to work with.

Thank you for answering so detailed.
I was not aware of what you have said:
„There is always the option to simply order one, as you can return it with a full refund should it not satisfy you”

This is actually fixing my issue !
I can save a „waiting for demo time”
I wish I knew it few months ago. Would be ordering quick.
You must be exterme confident it will work excellent.
Thank you Emile.
Just let me know how much time will l have to return it from the time I get it home ?
in case of SQ mismach?

Actually I remember that Vincent from Totaldac also always offered me the return policy
For all the products I purchesd from him.
I was always satisfied with his products and getting the Totaldac Twentyfour was natural way of progress.

Again just let me know how much time will I have to return the extreme in case it doesnt work well in my system?